Damn, looks like I just undermined the whole argument.
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Are ghosts real?
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Re:
by The Unwilling on Mon Aug 08, 2005 9:35 pm
ROFL at the banter just there...
On a more serious note, there are a couple of theories I would like to share about this. I have no idea who created them or (more worrying from a personal point of view) how I got to know them. All I can say is that they are intriguing.
1) People have already talked about this one - the energy imprint. The human body does give off its own electrical field, and feelings and actions are impulses from the brain in this electromagnetic field. This field can be photographed (I want to say Kirlian photographs - others can correct me), so they can leave an imprint that way, but perhaps at times of great emotional stress, the field expands or distorts so much that it leaves an echo of itself in susceptible rocks, ones that are affected by such fields. So, when someone who reacts to electromagnetic fields more than others comes across such an imprint, their brain "reads" the echo and translates it into things they "see" and hear".
2)This one, I have to say, is really out there. I only like it coz trying to imagine the scenario makes one's brain tingle with a potential breakdown - kinda fun. Anyway, this other theory is more about time than the paranormal really. Physicists, please forgive me, I know nothing of the science. Imagine the smallest measurement of time in the entire universe as a string billowing in some nth dimension beyond our ken. Lying next to it is the previous smallest meaurement and the next smallest, and so on ad infinitum. They are infinitely long (this depends on an infinite universe of course) and they billow back and forth across each other. Got the picture? If you have, then your brain is better than mine LOL. The easy part of this is actually the "ghost" part, which is that a ghost isn't the earthbound spirit of someone, but is rather just the interaction of one past or future "time string" with the one we are currently in. The idea is that we are meant to witness these crossovers a lot, but because the ones we witness are normally so close to the current one, we barely notice - this is also meant to explain déja vu. It is only very rarely that one "time string" from far off reaches this "time string", hence why ghosts - and UFOs (future objects) - aren't witnessed by many more people.
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I never said they were good theories, I never said the science was exact or indeed even minutely correct. I don't fully understand them myself, but something to be thinking about.
As for my own view, well I'm keeping an open mind
On a more serious note, there are a couple of theories I would like to share about this. I have no idea who created them or (more worrying from a personal point of view) how I got to know them. All I can say is that they are intriguing.
1) People have already talked about this one - the energy imprint. The human body does give off its own electrical field, and feelings and actions are impulses from the brain in this electromagnetic field. This field can be photographed (I want to say Kirlian photographs - others can correct me), so they can leave an imprint that way, but perhaps at times of great emotional stress, the field expands or distorts so much that it leaves an echo of itself in susceptible rocks, ones that are affected by such fields. So, when someone who reacts to electromagnetic fields more than others comes across such an imprint, their brain "reads" the echo and translates it into things they "see" and hear".
2)This one, I have to say, is really out there. I only like it coz trying to imagine the scenario makes one's brain tingle with a potential breakdown - kinda fun. Anyway, this other theory is more about time than the paranormal really. Physicists, please forgive me, I know nothing of the science. Imagine the smallest measurement of time in the entire universe as a string billowing in some nth dimension beyond our ken. Lying next to it is the previous smallest meaurement and the next smallest, and so on ad infinitum. They are infinitely long (this depends on an infinite universe of course) and they billow back and forth across each other. Got the picture? If you have, then your brain is better than mine LOL. The easy part of this is actually the "ghost" part, which is that a ghost isn't the earthbound spirit of someone, but is rather just the interaction of one past or future "time string" with the one we are currently in. The idea is that we are meant to witness these crossovers a lot, but because the ones we witness are normally so close to the current one, we barely notice - this is also meant to explain déja vu. It is only very rarely that one "time string" from far off reaches this "time string", hence why ghosts - and UFOs (future objects) - aren't witnessed by many more people.
-----
I never said they were good theories, I never said the science was exact or indeed even minutely correct. I don't fully understand them myself, but something to be thinking about.
As for my own view, well I'm keeping an open mind
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The Unwilling
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Re:
by novium on Mon Aug 08, 2005 9:36 pm
I'm a skeptic when it comes to ghost stories, but I can't say I really truly believe that either ghosts exist or not. I like ghost stories. I'm sort of agnostic when it comes to this.
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novium
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Re:
by Senethro on Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:13 pm
I treat ghosts with the same disdain and skepticism I treat all laputan cultural relics of a bygone era.
The reality revealed by scientific endeavour is a thousand times more incredible than anything a human can invent and yet something as unlikely as a human hand is simply mundane to those who think about astrology and spirits.
I've never had a paranormal experience.
The reality revealed by scientific endeavour is a thousand times more incredible than anything a human can invent and yet something as unlikely as a human hand is simply mundane to those who think about astrology and spirits.
I've never had a paranormal experience.
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Re:
by flarewearer on Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:19 pm
Quoting Senethro from 00:13, 11th Aug 2005
I treat ghosts with the same disdain and skepticism I treat all laputan cultural relics of a bygone era.
OLOZ LIEK SOSHIALISUM?
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Re:
by Senethro on Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:14 pm
Quoting flarewearer from 00:19, 11th Aug 2005Quoting Senethro from 00:13, 11th Aug 2005
I treat ghosts with the same disdain and skepticism I treat all laputan cultural relics of a bygone era.
OLOZ LIEK SOSHIALISUM?
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Re:
by LonelyPilgrim on Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:57 am
Just to make my personal observation on the belief in ghosts, not on the existence of ghosts...
It seems to me that if one believes in a 'soul' as independent or semi-independent of the human bodie, then there is no reason to discount the possibility of ghosts.
Likewise, if one does not believe in the 'soul', there is no reason to believe in the existence of ghosts, since there would be nothing remaining to cause a haunting.
So, I won't argue about ghosts with someone who discounts the existence of the soul, since there's really not even an iota of common ground to begin the discourse on (*ahem* Rob Hearn *ahem*).
What baffles me are those individuals, among whom I count my grandmother, who wholeheartedly believe in the existence of the human soul and yet vehemently discount the very possibility of the existence of ghosts. I am now assuming that I can place exnihilo into this category, yes?
To me, this is the real mystery... how can an individual believe in the soul and yet not in the possibility of ghosts?
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It seems to me that if one believes in a 'soul' as independent or semi-independent of the human bodie, then there is no reason to discount the possibility of ghosts.
Likewise, if one does not believe in the 'soul', there is no reason to believe in the existence of ghosts, since there would be nothing remaining to cause a haunting.
So, I won't argue about ghosts with someone who discounts the existence of the soul, since there's really not even an iota of common ground to begin the discourse on (*ahem* Rob Hearn *ahem*).
What baffles me are those individuals, among whom I count my grandmother, who wholeheartedly believe in the existence of the human soul and yet vehemently discount the very possibility of the existence of ghosts. I am now assuming that I can place exnihilo into this category, yes?
To me, this is the real mystery... how can an individual believe in the soul and yet not in the possibility of ghosts?
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Man is free; yet we must not suppose that he is at liberty to do everything he pleases, for he becomes a slave the moment he allows his actions to be ruled by passion. --Giacomo Casanova
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Re:
by Prophet Tenebrae on Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:10 am
Surely, Juedo-Christian beliefs pretty much have a straight forward playbook for souls? You're off to heaven/hell/limbo/rotting in the ground until judgement day and no inbetweenery.
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Prophet Tenebrae
Re:
by Senethro on Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:46 am
Quoting LonelyPilgrim from 04:57, 11th Aug 2005
So, I won't argue about ghosts with someone who discounts the existence of the soul, since there's really not even an iota of evidence to begin the discourse on.
Fixed it for you ^^
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Re:
by LonelyPilgrim on Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:09 pm
Quoting Senethro from 10:46, 11th Aug 2005Quoting LonelyPilgrim from 04:57, 11th Aug 2005
So, I won't argue about ghosts with someone who discounts the existence of the soul, since there's really not even an iota of evidence to begin the discourse on.
Fixed it for you ^^
Senethro, you are worse than a 2nd century scribe.
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I sing of arms, and the man...
Man is free; yet we must not suppose that he is at liberty to do everything he pleases, for he becomes a slave the moment he allows his actions to be ruled by passion. --Giacomo Casanova
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LonelyPilgrim
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Re:
by novium on Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:54 pm
oh, you can't say something as interesting as that and just drop it...
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Quoting exnihilo from 10:23, 11th Aug 2005
Who ever said I (or Jews in general) believe in the soul? Or if I/we do, it's in the way that most Christians do?
But this is another argument.
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novium
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Re:
by Gubbins on Thu Aug 11, 2005 8:45 pm
Speaking as a physicist...
No dice. That little wire called "earth" on plugs is called that for a reason. Electromagnetic fields cannot be stored in anything other than a perfect insulator*. The only thing that can change is the resistivity of rocks. And if that much stored energy can affect people, look out next time you go past a power plant... or a transformer... or a microwave.... Nice thought, but try again.
Some weird manifestation of string theory perhaps? Not that that's anything more than a theory anyway... and not necessarily a good one at that. Anyway, that violates causality.
It would take an awful lot for me to believe in ghosts. Mind you, there are some things out there that science can't explain. Having done water divining with fencing wire before, I have absolutely no explanation as to how it works... all I know is that it does. Go figure on that one.
[i]*Clarity edit: this is because charge leaks out due to finite resistance. Ferromagnetism can be present in iron and other materials to differing degrees.[i]
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...but then again, that is only my opinion.
Quoting The Unwilling from 00:35, 9th Aug 2005
1) People .... This field can be photographed ... the field expands or distorts so much that it leaves an echo of itself in susceptible rocks, ones that are affected by such fields...
No dice. That little wire called "earth" on plugs is called that for a reason. Electromagnetic fields cannot be stored in anything other than a perfect insulator*. The only thing that can change is the resistivity of rocks. And if that much stored energy can affect people, look out next time you go past a power plant... or a transformer... or a microwave.... Nice thought, but try again.
... Physicists, please forgive me, I know nothing of the science. Imagine the smallest measurement of time in the entire universe as a string billowing in some nth dimension beyond our ken. Lying next to it is the previous smallest meaurement and the next smallest, and so on ad infinitum. ...
Some weird manifestation of string theory perhaps? Not that that's anything more than a theory anyway... and not necessarily a good one at that. Anyway, that violates causality.
It would take an awful lot for me to believe in ghosts. Mind you, there are some things out there that science can't explain. Having done water divining with fencing wire before, I have absolutely no explanation as to how it works... all I know is that it does. Go figure on that one.
[i]*Clarity edit: this is because charge leaks out due to finite resistance. Ferromagnetism can be present in iron and other materials to differing degrees.[i]
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...but then again, that is only my opinion.
...then again, that is only my opinion.
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Re:
by Wee Nic the Dobber!!!!! on Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:45 am
Apparently if you DREAM about a ghost of someone you know...it indicates that you are in some way still influenced by this (dead) persons opinions/attitudes...
which to me makes sense- you have cornflakes for breakfast..theres a chance you might dream about them...
And if your dreams are the mind's way of making sense of things (people, places, events etc..) then does the brain use other ways in which to "make sense of things"...
Make you think you've seen a ghost??
which to me makes sense- you have cornflakes for breakfast..theres a chance you might dream about them...
And if your dreams are the mind's way of making sense of things (people, places, events etc..) then does the brain use other ways in which to "make sense of things"...
Make you think you've seen a ghost??
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Re:
by Prophet Tenebrae on Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:39 am
Interestingly, Gubbins - I have actually read that there were basically ways of inducing feelings of forboding in people just by the presence of strong electromagnetic fields.
It's often the case that people who feel they are living in a haunted house - at least those who have had that bald science sceptic guy come around, generally find that there is - for whatever reason - a strong EM field which is what causes people to feel mild paranoia and think there is a presence.
Similar suppositions were made about a "god spot" in the brain but they proved to be inconclusive.
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It's often the case that people who feel they are living in a haunted house - at least those who have had that bald science sceptic guy come around, generally find that there is - for whatever reason - a strong EM field which is what causes people to feel mild paranoia and think there is a presence.
Similar suppositions were made about a "god spot" in the brain but they proved to be inconclusive.
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Prophet Tenebrae
Re:
by Duggeh on Mon Aug 15, 2005 12:48 pm
One of my friends at high school had a "haunted bedroom" (despite the fact that prior to his fmaily living there, the building had simply been a disused barn), and whenever we were round there at night, mysterious pockets of cold air, strange shimmerings and other such paranormal paranoia would manifest themselves, I personally never ever saw any of these despite the hysteria of anyone else who was staying over. my disbelief was finally set when I said one night "whats that?" pointing to a section of the room, no more paranormal than any other and everyone else shrieked.
High spirits of high school pupils were the only spirits that were ever really there I think.
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High spirits of high school pupils were the only spirits that were ever really there I think.
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