NUS Referendum at Glasgow

[Smoking_Gun]

Just thought folks might be interested to know that the SRC in Glasgow are proposing a motion to hold a referendum on joining the NUS again.
The QM Union is meeting this evening to discuss their stance on it with the Glasgow University Union meeting at some point this week and the motion being put before Council (along with said Council's new constitution) on Thursday.

Details can be found athttp://www.glasgowstudent.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=58

[ovi]

they misspelled contentious.

[papercutheart]

Last time I checked we were at the University of St. Andrews...

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[flarewearer]

[quote]Quoting papercutheart from 16:05, 8th Nov 2005
Last time I checked we were at the University of St. Andrews...[quote]

No shit, sherlock, but this would of course have implications for St Andrews if Glasgow were to join the NUS

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[Rob]

No shit, sherlock, but this would of course have implications for St Andrews if Glasgow were to join the NUS

not wanting to be and arsehole here, but why again?

[Smith]

Quoting rob from 13:08, 9th Nov 2005

No shit, sherlock, but this would of course have implications for St Andrews if Glasgow were to join the NUS

not wanting to be and arsehole here, but why again?

basically the price of a pint would go up in the union

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We're not drunk, we're multi-millionaires...
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[DrAlex]

I've never understood the NUS debate. Why don't we want to join? (besides the obvious pint related issues)

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http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37100343

[Guest]

Frankly I wouldn't be suprised if St Andrews still didn't join the NUS if every other university in the country did. (after all, when do we turn down the chance to be different or, even better, stubbornly different...)

[Rob]

Quoting Smith from 13:16, 9th Nov 2005

Quoting rob from 13:08, 9th Nov 2005

No shit, sherlock, but this would of course have implications for St Andrews if Glasgow were to join the NUS

not wanting to be and arsehole here, but why again?

basically the price of a pint would go up in the union

[hr]

We're not drunk, we're multi-millionaires...
IMAGE:img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/ryanlewisjones/burlyman.jpg

oh right. for a minute there i thought it was something important. anyway. doesnt really concern me. or you for that matter...

[flarewearer]

Quoting rob from 15:49, 9th Nov 2005

Quoting Smith from 13:16, 9th Nov 2005

Quoting rob from 13:08, 9th Nov 2005
[quote]
No shit, sherlock, but this would of course have implications for St Andrews if Glasgow were to join the NUS

not wanting to be and arsehole here, but why again?

basically the price of a pint would go up in the union

[hr]

We're not drunk, we're multi-millionaires...
IMAGE:img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/ryanlewisjones/burlyman.jpg

oh right. for a minute there i thought it was something important. anyway. doesnt really concern me. or you for that matter...[/quote]

But it does (im not an expert on the subject, where's Marco or Ben Rielly when you need them to explain things?), if Glasgow leaves the alliance with some of the other Scottish universities (as Edinburgh already has), it leaves st andrews, a relatively small university wil less political say, less representation int he student body as a whole, and less buying power as a students' union. Which really isnt good at all. And if St Andrews is forced into joining the NUS, it likely means high fees and being dictated to by a distant and unrepresentative NUs executive... Im sure someone will clarify this for you / and / or me.

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[Guest]

i appreciate that this will be torn to shreds, but i quite want to join the NUS, lots of places only give discounts with an NUS card, not with a valid student card, and surely the price of a pint wudnt be that much?

[David Bean]

Quoting DrAlex from 13:44, 9th Nov 2005
I've never understood the NUS debate. Why don't we want to join? (besides the obvious pint related issues)

Put simply, too much money for too little representation. St Andrews students are already represented on the national stage by CHESS and the National Postgraduate Committee, bodies to affiliate to which it costs only a fraction of the sums it would cost us to join the NUS (conservatively estimated at around £16,000), and the work of both of these bodies have proven countless times that they are able to deliver for students like ourselves. The average NUS student attends a further educational college, whereas we have active representation in CHESS and the NPC (on whose National Executive I sit, having been elected to it at their AGM during the summer) - smaller, leaner, more efficient bodies who don't waste their time with grandiose visions like trying to achieve peace in the Middle East, but are more interested in the issues that actually affect our lives as students, such as the rising costs of education, and quality assurance.

I haven't seen any evidence that the position of a St Andrews student would be even remotely improved by membership of the NUS, but I do know that it would cost a hell of a lot.

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I'm your Guardian Angel.

[Smith]

Quoting rob from 15:49, 9th Nov 2005

Quoting Smith from 13:16, 9th Nov 2005

Quoting rob from 13:08, 9th Nov 2005
[quote]
No shit, sherlock, but this would of course have implications for St Andrews if Glasgow were to join the NUS

not wanting to be and arsehole here, but why again?

basically the price of a pint would go up in the union

[hr]

We're not drunk, we're multi-millionaires...
IMAGE:img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/ryanlewisjones/burlyman.jpg

oh right. for a minute there i thought it was something important. anyway. doesnt really concern me. or you for that matter...[/quote]

Why doesn't it concern me? I was in for a pint there last night.

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We're not drunk, we're multi-millionaires...
IMAGE:img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/ryanlewisjones/burlyman.jpg

[Marco Biagi]

Yes, it would cost a lot to join NUS. The union of course already spends a lot of money on a lot of things. Anyway, there is CHESS, a representational alternative. Unions can be members of both CHESS and NUS, so there is no direct representational 'problem' with Glasgow joining NUS, because as with Edinburgh, they will probably stay members of CHESS. However, with the two largest members now saying CHESS isn't good enough, it really should take the hint.

The pressure from Glasgow joining NUS comes from finances. Student unions work together as a buying consortium to buy beer (etc) at the cheapest prices through direct negotiation with the manufacturers, although actually, as with everything else, they work together in two buying consortia - the NUS members (NUSSL) and a band of non-NUS members (Northern Services). Unlike with representation, you can't be a member of both. Also, obviously the smaller a consortium gets, the less clout it has, and the higher its prices. NS is small already, and can't afford to get smaller. NUSSL already offers better prices according to an independent analysis for Edinburgh - to the point where it outweighed the cost of NUS membership and made membership cheaper by £7,000 (yes, part of that was one bum deal NS had with Schweppes), but a) only part and b) NS just doesn't have the consistency year-to-year that a much larger body does so such fuckups will happen more regularly). And as NS loses members, its prices are going to go up, and the premium of being in NUS will get higher and higher.

Three years ago Dundee - not one of the largest NS members - talked about leaving, and the staff of the union were putting the effect on beer prices as a 10% increase. Edinburgh now definitely will be leaving, once its finished its contract with NS. Bluntly, since they're all dogmatically biased against NUS - except Ben Reilly and he's terrified to say what he actually thinks - I don't imagine the union sabs and officers will pass on the thoughts of current union staff in anything like fair way. I'm sure their first instincts will be to try to work with NS - in small part because they can get perks from it by being negotiators - but losing Edinburgh from the buying consortium is going to make it even less feasible as a unit. If Glasgow leaves as well, St Andrews might as well start buying its alcohol from Tesco, if it remains dogmatically opposed to the clear and obvious solution of joining the NUS.

[Rob]

Quoting Smith from 05:01, 10th Nov 2005

Quoting rob from 15:49, 9th Nov 2005

Quoting Smith from 13:16, 9th Nov 2005
[quote]Quoting rob from 13:08, 9th Nov 2005
[quote]
No shit, sherlock, but this would of course have implications for St Andrews if Glasgow were to join the NUS

not wanting to be and arsehole here, but why again?

basically the price of a pint would go up in the union

[hr]

We're not drunk, we're multi-millionaires...
IMAGE:img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/ryanlewisjones/burlyman.jpg

oh right. for a minute there i thought it was something important. anyway. doesnt really concern me. or you for that matter...[/quote]

Why doesn't it concern me? I was in for a pint there last night.

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We're not drunk, we're multi-millionaires...
IMAGE:img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/ryanlewisjones/burlyman.jpg[/quote]

i take it back then!

[flarewearer]

As a student can you not join the NUS even if your union isn't affiliated to it?

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[Marco Biagi]

Quoting flarewearer from 13:15, 10th Nov 2005
As a student can you not join the NUS even if your union isn't affiliated to it?

No.

[David Bean]

On a slightly different note, reading the text of the motion to the Glasgow SRC left me wondering how on earth it would be possible to enforce any election rules on members of a 'no' campaign. If it came up in St Andrews, and I was campaigning, I'd tear down every single 'yes' poster I could find, spend whatever money I could lay my hands on and generally flout the election rules as much as I could, safe in the knowledge that the worst anyone could do would be to cancel the election, which would suit me down to the ground! After all, you can disqualify a candidate in an election, but you can hardly disqualify one side in a referendum, can you?

(Edit: in case anyone's wondering, I wouldn't REALLY do that, I'm just making the point that I can't see how anyone could stop me if I did.)

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I'm your Guardian Angel.

[Prophet Tenebrae]

David Bean you electoral fiend, meet your arch-nemesis ASBO!

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[Guest]

Quoting David Bean from 22:09, 10th Nov 2005
spend whatever money I could lay my hands on and generally flout the election rules as much as I could, safe in the knowledge that the worst anyone could do would be to cancel the election, which would suit me down to the ground! After all, you can disqualify a candidate in an election, but you can hardly disqualify one side in a referendum, can you?

Certain senior members of the St Andrews Union last year went down to edinburgh to try and get their vote stopped by behaving badly. It didn't work, but I don't know whether it was because they were useless at running a dirty tricks campaign or because the edinburgh election officers decided they had to ignore them....