Scottish people, you are not British

[Iain]

You've obviously settled for your lot "fat b@stard". Bigotry, xenophobia, intolerance, strife.

Well if you want to go so far as to actually accuse ME, a member of the said SNP, I daren't ask for the consequences because that is not what the SNP is about.

I'll tell you now that nationalism in the SNP is NOTHING to do with opposition to others. The underlying principle is to get Scotland back on the map and back on the rails. Having said that we are IN OPPOSITION at Holyrood; what are we meant to do at First Ministers questions; sit down and wave little yellow banners and not OPPOSE?!?!?!?!?!?!!

Yes I sound like I've gone off my rocker but then again some people still haven't taken the hint about what the SNP exists for.

[hr]

http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~snpsoc

[Fozzy Bear]

Quoting fat bastard from 22:14, 16th Jan 2006
I feel now would be the time to quote Irvine Welsh

It's shite being Scottish! We're the lowest of the low! The scum of the fucking Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization! Some people hate English. I don't! They're just wankers! We, on the other hand, are colonized by wankers! Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized by! We're ruled by effete arseholes! It's a shite state of affairs to be in, Tommy! And all the fresh air in the world won't make any fucking difference.

it seems like Irvine Welsh didn't have a clue what he was talking about when he said that.
Scotland was never colonised, nor was it conquered.
As someone earlier stated (i think), it was a Scottish king who became king of England.
The English may have invaded mulitple times but they were never successful.

You metion relics of the past, who's to say that the union isnt a relic of the past. If i remember correctly, a large number of Scots were against the union of the parliaments but the English did it anyway, against the will of the Scots. (i may be wrong in this, correct me if i am, any history students)

If Scotland was independant, its money would be its own. In the current arrangement, any money from Scotland gets sent off to Gordon Browns pockets and very little of this makes its way back up north.

Basically, we're being screwed out of money we should have so that England can improve its services.

to set the record straight, im not a nationalist, nor am i in the SNP but i am Scottish.

[hr]

Wocka Wocka

[Midget]

Err frankly thats bollocks, while the South-East in terms of policy and representation seems to get a better deal than most of the rest of country (choice of school, academies all that shit blatantly a London idea), I blame the London based press too, in terms of money spent per citizen Scotland and NI do far better than the people of England and Wales, I think your'll find. You are living off our taxes far more than we are living off yours. I think it was all settled in some agreement a while ago the some sort of Caledonian equation or whatever. You also have more representation and a much smaller minimum population for a constituency. The North-East has got the worst of both worlds you only need to look south of the border to see Scotland has it fine.

[hr]

IMAGE:img9.imgspot.com/u/04/241/18/160019.jpg Too far.

[fat bastard]

Iain,

that's what i said. If you want that, join the SNP and politically work for it.

I was just making a point about the anti english feeling in much of scotland, albeit completely incoherently

[exnihilo]

Quoting Iain from 22:55, 16th Jan 2006Yes I sound like I've gone off my rocker but then again some people still haven't taken the hint about what the SNP exists for.

Perhaps because nobody knows? Maybe if your leader wasn't pathologically incapable of saying the same thing twice matters would be easier for you.

[Guest]

Quoting Iain from 01:02, 15th Jan 2006
Can you accept that while I love Scotland, I would use the practicality of governing five million people to their tastes and economics as the case for independence every bit as much.

[hr]

http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~snpsoc

Why stop there? Why not break down Scotland in to little bunches of say... 500 people each with their own country, a tiny strech of land as governing 500 according "to their tastes and economics" is even better than Five Million

[Guest]

Quoting fozzy bear from 23:10, 16th Jan 2006
If Scotland was independant, its money would be its own. In the current arrangement, any money from Scotland gets sent off to Gordon Browns pockets and very little of this makes its way back up north.

Basically, we're being screwed out of money we should have so that England can improve its services.
...
to set the record straight, im not a nationalist, nor am i in the SNP but i am Scottish.

Just to set the record straight, you're also completely wrong. Public sector spending in scotland is significantly greater than tax revenue (spending is a little less than 50% of gdp and tax is a little bit above 40%), an independent scotland would have to cut spending or significantly raise taxes (a bad idea in a new country trying to calm overseas investors) if it wanted to maintain its public sector provision.

If an independent currency was maintained I very much doubt that the markets would have as much faith in the new monetary policy fraimwork as they do in Monetary Policy committee in london, not least of all because of the significant risk of political interference by the busybodies in the Holyrood parish council.

You are not being screwed out of your money, in fact the south is stuffing your mouths with their gold (far more so than they send to africa), but, as a Unionist, I think that it's a price worth paying...

[Al]

What always amuses me about this debate is that - to some Unionists - it is Britain's oil and Britain's whisky revenues but the taxpayers who are supposedly bankrolling Scotland are always described as English.

[The Cellar Bar]

Quoting Al from 00:48, 18th Jan 2006
What always amuses me about this debate is that - to some Unionists - it is Britain's oil and Britain's whisky revenues but the taxpayers who are supposedly bankrolling Scotland are always described as English.

what makes it even more "amusing" or at least intriguing is the fact that those self-same Unionists are invariably the ones most enthusiastically opposed to cutting this apparent onerous burden and letting Scotland go it own way. Probably the same bunch who were hacked off because a Scottish Royal Family decided that the best place to educate the Heir to the Throne would be Scotland.

I'd also be interested in those figures. 50% and 40% of whose GDP? Are they seriously showing that Scotland tax revenue contribution to the UK is 40% of the total. That's not bad going for 10% of the population.

It also doesn't specify whether this is total tax revenue or based on individual Income Tax contribution. Given that Scotland's cost of living is agreed to be higher than in some parts of England, the contribution towards indirect taxation such as VAT will be proporionately higher. At the same time as salaries and earnings are effectively lower than in some parts of England.

As it is, other figures show pretty clearly that there has been a shortfall in Public Spending of some £4billion per annum compared solely that Oil revenues. And that has been the case for some 30 years. In fact, oil revenues of some £21 billion a year equated to the total Social Security budget for the UK during the 70's and 80's. Imagine what Scotland could have done with £21 billion in oil revenues, annually, for 30 years.

What also seems to have been left out of the "equation" is that Scotland's contribution to GDP in itself is something like 15-20% of the UK's total. Again, not bad going for 10% of the population.

[Guest]

Quoting The Cellar Bar from 02:08, 18th Jan 2006
I'd also be interested in those figures. 50% and 40% of whose GDP? Are they seriously showing that Scotland tax revenue contribution to the UK is 40% of the total. That's not bad going for 10% of the population.

Unfortunately they both refer to Scottish GDP, indicating that the current level of spending in scotland is unsustainable without tax rises in the event of independence.