Police madness at my other uni too!

[Captain_Spanky]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand an interesting article on the whole thing, which sums up my feelings pretty well:

http://dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?id=38986

[hr]

Beatrice - Darling. Dearest. Dead.

[The Dude]

Quoting Captain_Spanky from 02:50, 18th Nov 2006
Aaaaaaaaaaaaand an interesting article on the whole thing, which sums up my feelings pretty well:

http://dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?id=38986

[hr]

Beatrice - Darling. Dearest. Dead.

At what point in the career of a university police officer do they enter life and death situations where they see their comrades fall in the line of duty? There may be a few incidents but they are by no means the norm. Whatever rules UCLA wants to have about library usage is a different matter entirely. The worst that should have happened was the guy being picked up by his shoulders and dumped on the front step. Bouncers in bars in St. Andrews are exposed to much greater peril on the job than some campus cops yet they would never dream of repeatedly tasing a recalcitrant and verbally abusive individual. What happened in this situation was cruel and unnecessary. If the campus cops are on as much of a knife edge as this article claims there should be other protocols for the library sweep hour. They and the University should be held accountable.

[Captain_Spanky]

Cruel and unnecessary? Tasering him is probably the safest way of removing him.

The security were called in to a situation where an unknon is refusing to leave a premesis, being loud and belligerant towards authority etc. They have no way of knowing how he'll react. Say they just try and cuff him but he struggles, as you here him do in the video when he says "get you fucking hands off me". Now he could either get cuffed but fall and seriously injure himself, or possibly get his hands on a weapon. Neither of which is good.

They could restrain him by prhysical force but again this carries the risk of lasting injury.

With a taser they can disable him safely from a distence, and with no risk to him or themselves. Sure a taser hurts while it's own you but it's not going to do permanant damage. Anyone that could say what he did after being tased is clearly not that hurt.

[hr]

Beatrice - Darling. Dearest. Dead.

[Senethro]

Quoting Captain_Spanky from 09:46, 18th Nov 2006
Cruel and unnecessary? Tasering him is probably the safest way of removing him.

The security were called in to a situation where an unknon is refusing to leave a premesis, being loud and belligerant towards authority etc. They have no way of knowing how he'll react. Say they just try and cuff him but he struggles, as you here him do in the video when he says "get you fucking hands off me". Now he could either get cuffed but fall and seriously injure himself, or possibly get his hands on a weapon. Neither of which is good.

They could restrain him by prhysical force but again this carries the risk of lasting injury.

With a taser they can disable him safely from a distence, and with no risk to him or themselves. Sure a taser hurts while it's own you but it's not going to do permanant damage. Anyone that could say what he did after being tased is clearly not that hurt.

blah blah blah 'e was asking for it.

[Captain_Spanky]

Thanks for trying. Next please. I've said it before if you're going to contribute to a thread why not try actually contributing insted of being a raving douchebag? Or is that your "thing". Christ I hate Sinner nerds.

[hr]

Beatrice - Darling. Dearest. Dead.

[Senethro]

Look mate, as soon as you have something worth responding to instead of making opinions, linking people with the same opinions or making flawed arguments from safety (less lethal != safe, especially when surrounded by a proto-riot) then I'll respond. Until then, you can be summed up as "well 'e were a cunt werntee? 'sfair innit."

[Thalia]

The problem with unthinkingly tasering someone adn treating it like a non-lethal alternative is that one day those cops are gonna repeatedly taser someone with a heart condition or who has taken drugs and they will kill them. If that guy had had a health problem then he would have died for being a cunt in the uni library - is that justifiable?

And before you argue that those at risk are a very low percentage, did you hear those guys asking if he had any pre-existing conditions? They never know what potential health problems a person might have and that means that they risk seriously injuring someone every time they use their taser.

As well as that - the damn thing inflicts pain. Using it multiple times because he refused to move pretty much amounts to torture. They could have just as easily searched him and then picked him up and dumped him outside. It's crazy the way people treat tasers as a harmless weapon. They are a weapon. They inflict pain. They just don't leave any visible marks, which is handy for those on a power trip, eh?

[hr]

The shadow proves the sunshine...

...And I am a Sinner Goddess.

[exnihilo]

They didn't ask if he had a heart condition so they had no right to use a taser? What?

[DrAlex]

Combiz Abdolrahimi calls for the protest on grounds that racial profiling was responsible for the situation.

But attempts to paint this as an issue of racial profiling really stretch the facts. I – who by no means look middle Eastern – have been asked to produce my BruinCard by CSOs.

If you look for hatred everywhere, then it's all you'll find.

Quoting the dude from 03:58, 18th Nov 2006
At what point in the career of a university police officer do they enter life and death situations where they see their comrades fall in the line of duty?

I just want to check that you aren't confusing the police with the CSOs. In which case, I think it is entirely plausible that campus police have worked in other divisions of the police, and so have probably faced situations similar to what the author describes.

[hr]

"Listen to DrAlex."-Polli
http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37100343

[Manic23]

Quoting Captain_Spanky from 23:03, 17th Nov 2006
From what I could tell from the video, that little douchbaggot (a combination of douchebag and faggot) got what he deserved. Anyone who can spout crap about "THIS IS YOUR PATRIOT ACT" after being tazed clearly hasthe ability to stand up. Which he didn't. They asked him many times, patiantly, to and he still didn't. So they tazed his ass to move him along.

And he was clearly doing it to try and get a reaction so liberal pussies would spout shit about abuse of power in their lame student blogs. People like that give students a bad name. Christ, if he was on privately owned property (in this case a university library) and the staff asked him to leave and he wouldn't, meaning they had to get the campus police, then OF COURSE they're justified in using force to get him off the premises, the same if someone refuses to leave your home or any other privately owned piece of property. Suck on that liberal fags.

[hr]

Beatrice - Darling. Dearest. Dead.

For a minute I was amazed that a supposed student of this university could be so astonishingly cretinous, then I looked at your facebook profile and so much was explained.

Whether you think that the CSO's in question were excessive or not is beside the point. Fine - have an opinion, but try to back it up with something that doesn't exclusively rely on

a) Homophobia
b) Sweeping generalisations on the political persuasions of those who dare to disagree with you

There are so many people on the sinner who really fuck me off by asserting their superiority on all matters above all others, but it especially riles me when those people in question talk complete and utter bollocks on matters which they clearly have no comprehension of at all.

[The Dude]

Quoting Captain_Spanky from 09:46, 18th Nov 2006
Cruel and unnecessary? Tasering him is probably the safest way of removing him.

The security were called in to a situation where an unknon is refusing to leave a premesis, being loud and belligerant towards authority etc. They have no way of knowing how he'll react. Say they just try and cuff him but he struggles, as you here him do in the video when he says "get you fucking hands off me". Now he could either get cuffed but fall and seriously injure himself, or possibly get his hands on a weapon. Neither of which is good.

They could restrain him by prhysical force but again this carries the risk of lasting injury.

With a taser they can disable him safely from a distence, and with no risk to him or themselves. Sure a taser hurts while it's own you but it's not going to do permanant damage. Anyone that could say what he did after being tased is clearly not that hurt.

[hr]

Beatrice - Darling. Dearest. Dead.

How man times have the Union door men draged somebody out yelling "fucking cunts" at the top of their voice and quickly and simply resolved the issue right there? You make it sound as if they were approaching a potental suicide bomber.

[Thalia]

Quoting exnihilo from 12:25, 18th Nov 2006
They didn't ask if he had a heart condition so they had no right to use a taser? What?

No, what i meant was, in situations where a taser might be used, such as this one, you never know the health of the individual and your not going to stop and ask. Therefore everytime some uses a taser they're risking killing someone.

I just don't think it's right that a taser should be used as a handy non-dangerous way of stopping someone. Because it is dangerous, especially if used multiple times.

[hr]

The shadow proves the sunshine...

...And I am a Sinner Goddess.

[Darshybaby]

Well I was reading one of the reports on this and it said 189 people have died from tasers in the USA in the last three years. So harmless hey?

[novium]

i still think it was not quite as clear cut as it seems- the news reports I'm reading now suggest that a crowd had gathered and the guy was inciting them to join in.....

which still doesn't excuse what the police offers did, but it still makes me less inclined to feel sorry for the student.

if it did happen like that, i'd put him in the same group as S.A.W. at santa cruz, who kept trying to pick fights with military recruiters and/or the cops so that they could be the noble , oppressed freedom fighters.

[hr]

tamen ira procul absit, cum qua nihil recte fieri, nihil considerate potest.

[Darshybaby]

Novium...well the initial newspaper reports and video...suggest that a CSO asked for ID and when one was not produced, asked the guy to leave. The guy refused and then asked library staff (also students) to say summin. Then when the shouting begins, that is when the students gather to see what is happening.

Like I said, I would be pissed if I was clearly working on uni work and had to go all the way home to get a card to prove that I am allowed to be there. However, of course who knows what else was said.

From his facebook profile..it seems that he does Middle East Studies. Although his wall seems strangely fairly empty. Perhaps stuff deleted by him?

Look basically, yes, this student may not be all innocent in this. Yes we don't know the whole deal. However, what we do know is that the police should not react so violently. And that is not some "liberal wishywashy crap"...that is just basic common sense. I for one do not think the incident has done much good for the level of respect of UCPD at UCLA and in particular the UCPD CSO's. On another interesting note...with regards to the Daily Bruin article that someone here used to support the other side of the argument. Well the student reporter on there...seems to be friends with CSOs according to his Facebook. So when you take that bias into account....

Well who knows. The bottom line is...the police need to be less brutal.

[Captain_Spanky]

Quoting Manic23 from 14:40, 18th Nov 2006

Quoting Captain_Spanky from 23:03, 17th Nov 2006
From what I could tell from the video, that little douchbaggot (a combination of douchebag and faggot) got what he deserved. Anyone who can spout crap about "THIS IS YOUR PATRIOT ACT" after being tazed clearly hasthe ability to stand up. Which he didn't. They asked him many times, patiantly, to and he still didn't. So they tazed his ass to move him along.

And he was clearly doing it to try and get a reaction so liberal pussies would spout shit about abuse of power in their lame student blogs. People like that give students a bad name. Christ, if he was on privately owned property (in this case a university library) and the staff asked him to leave and he wouldn't, meaning they had to get the campus police, then OF COURSE they're justified in using force to get him off the premises, the same if someone refuses to leave your home or any other privately owned piece of property. Suck on that liberal fags.

[hr]

Beatrice - Darling. Dearest. Dead.

For a minute I was amazed that a supposed student of this university could be so astonishingly cretinous, then I looked at your facebook profile and so much was explained.

Whether you think that the CSO's in question were excessive or not is beside the point. Fine - have an opinion, but try to back it up with something that doesn't exclusively rely on

a) Homophobia
b) Sweeping generalisations on the political persuasions of those who dare to disagree with you

There are so many people on the sinner who really fuck me off by asserting their superiority on all matters above all others, but it especially riles me when those people in question talk complete and utter bollocks on matters which they clearly have no comprehension of at all.

Homophobia? Sweeping generalisation? I've heard/read two eye witness accounts of what happened, read quite a few articles on tasering, and reports from military and police members who use tasers and can quite easily form my own opinion thanks. And all of those come to the same conclusion: the guy definately deserved it, and that tasering is pretty much safe and in fact leaves the subject feeling a rush of endorphins after the charge is stopped. And as for insulting my intellingence I find it a little ironic that you couldn't use your reading comprehension skills to look past the way I said things to what I was saying. Judgemental much? Oh noes you looked at my facbook profile. If I didn't stand behind it 100% it wouldn't be in the public domain and neither would this.

And a lot of what this is DOES come down to whether he deserved to being tasered or not Senthro, and the way he was acting to authority, and the apparant state of his facebook profile (which I believe contained some wonderful quotes about "challeneging authority wherever possible" and "making a stir") make it seem like YES he was trying to get a reaction out of the cops. Which he did.

[hr]

Beatrice - Darling. Dearest. Dead.

[Captain_Spanky]

Quoting Darshybaby from 15:23, 18th Nov 2006

Well who knows. The bottom line is...the police need to be less brutal.

Tasering is a lot less brutal than tackling someone to the floor to restrain and cuff them. Would you rather I pushed you down with enough force to maybe remove teeth or break an arm (the amount of force roughly required if someone is acting as a dead weight or putting all their force in to a struggle) or simple disabled you muscle control with an electric shock?

Less brutal? Come on people.

[hr]

Beatrice - Darling. Dearest. Dead.

[Darshybaby]

"Well who knows. The bottom line is...the police need to be less brutal

Tasering is a lot less brutal than tackling someone to the floor to restrain and cuff them. Would you rather I pushed you down with enough force to maybe remove teeth or break an arm (the amount of force roughly required if someone is acting as a dead weight or putting all their force in to a struggle) or simple disabled you muscle control with an electric shock?

Less brutal? Come on people."


Erm neither really. How difficult is it for three officers and two CSOs to simply handcuff the guy and let him sit down calmly? That is something you are taught when breaking up fights...get the loudmouths to turn away from each other and for them to sit down. It calms them down. It works everytime. If the guy is handcuffed, then he cannot pose a danger. Police are meant to use their brain to work out the best option to take. Not resort to the easiest one. Simple as that.

Also here are a few more interesting facts ABOUT THE WRITER (DAVID LAZAR) OF THE DAILY BRUIN ARTICLE THAT YOU CITED AGAINST THE STUDENT:

1) Friend of CSOs...so naturally biased.

2) Interesting Facebook groups he is part of:

. NRA Gun Club - "We advocate for the protection of the second amendment and gun ownership rights."

.Peace Through Superior Firepower

. Creator of the group "Boycott France" "Divest from this ungrateful, un-American failure of a country. Partial list of French products:" From his support for the Iraq War and his support for the Republicans, I can only assume this was created in response to the French veto. Fair enough.

. Go Israel! Protect Yourself and Fight in Lebanon and Gaza!

. US out of UN...cos "World government through the U.N. is a serious threat to freedom of Americans and citizens of other autonomous nations. It allows terrorist states such as Iran and Syria equal footing with civilized nations and views terrorist groups such as Hezbollah as political movements. Overwhelmingly financed by U.S. tax payers, the U.N. passes useless resolutions that it can not and does not enforce. Filled with corrupt bureaucrats, they use their powers to undermined the interest of the U.S. and line their own pockets with gold. The U.S. has no business financing this organization, let alone participating in it."

. Global Warming: Just Another False Alarm

Okay so those are just some of the causes he is passionate about. Of course a lot of groups are just jokes that we all sign up to but the ones above, give an indication of the reporters mindset. Clearly he is someone who is willing to listen to blind authority; rather than admit that sometimes authority can be wrong.

and on a more jokey note..

3) An Economics grad student...(having done Econ myself)...clearly not all right up there! jokes.

SO JUST TO REITERATE...the above is a character analysis of the reporter supporting the UCPD. It is NOT About the student.

[Darshybaby]

Quoting Captain Spanky

"And a lot of what this is DOES come down to whether he deserved to being tasered or not Senthro, and the way he was acting to authority, and the apparant state of his facebook profile (which I believe contained some wonderful quotes about "challeneging authority wherever possible" and "making a stir") make it seem like YES he was trying to get a reaction out of the cops. Which he did. "

Erm I am looking at his profile now and all I can see is these quote. There are no other quotes:

"Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is in prison". -Henry David Thoreau

Also his profile is simply:

" i'm a simple man. i like school and soccer. throw in some persian poetry and politics and i'm golden. did i mention that i love delicious food."

[Captain_Spanky]

Quoting Darshybaby from 15:54, 18th Nov 2006
Quoting Captain Spanky

"And a lot of what this is DOES come down to whether he deserved to being tasered or not Senthro, and the way he was acting to authority, and the apparant state of his facebook profile (which I believe contained some wonderful quotes about "challeneging authority wherever possible" and "making a stir") make it seem like YES he was trying to get a reaction out of the cops. Which he did. "

Erm I am looking at his profile now and all I can see is these quote. There are no other quotes:

"Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is in prison". -Henry David Thoreau

Also his profile is simply:

" i'm a simple man. i like school and soccer. throw in some persian poetry and politics and i'm golden. did i mention that i love delicious food."

Yes I heard that he changed a lot of his profile after the incident, and it is oddly blank. But there you go, that might be wrong. I still think tasering was the right course of action, especially because they needed him out of there fast, what with the developing crowd and all. Yes they partly caused that but by that point they can't go "oh hang on maybe we messed up" they just needed to get him to leave. Which tasering did. More importantly, as with any system of punishment, they need to follow through with their threats. If a police man says he'll taser me if I do not remove myself and I know he won't then why would I leave? Positions of power, mostly, work on two things - fear or respect. Respect is gained through knowing someone, seeing them at work and in general spending time with them. Now the way the guy was acting showed he wouldn't have respected the cops if they'd been nice as pie, so that leaves them with the fear option really.

And they did try and cuff him, you can hear him struggle and say "get your fucking hands off me" at the start of the video. Right before they give up on that approach and tase him.

[hr]

Beatrice - Darling. Dearest. Dead.