For a queer positive facebook...

[exnihilo]

Well recognised, that man!

[Midget]

Example:

****** **** ** ******* ***
**** Uni. Alum '**
**********

Sex: Male
Interested In: Women

Pork pies.




[hr]

IMAGE:img9.imgspot.com/u/04/241/18/160019.jpg "Little!"
http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37100090

[Cain]

Quoting Midget from 13:54, 19th Dec 2006
Example:

etc

Pork pies.

I'm being very dense today. What's that an example of?

[hr]

I hold an element of surprise

[Insight]

Lies? I think the example used is of a student who, supposedly, lying about his/her gender/orientation.

I think...

[hr]

Former SRC Member for Sexualities & Gender
Current Dumbfounded fool of Hospital-Land
http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37101378

[Rilla]

Maybe not such a good idea, Midget, to put that down when so many people will recognise the initials?


I wouldn't want my sexuality discussed on an internet noticeboard...

[hr]

Be good to yourself because nobody else has the power to make you happy.

[angel_kohaku]

Neither would I.

This is why I don't understand why the whole gender/sex/sexuality thing is a big deal. Why not just run it on a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" basis?

Would people like a box as well so we can add stuff like "Female with gender issues, interested in men, women and animals, following a strict BDSM way of life"?

[hr]

I have always depended on the kindness of strangers

[Midget]

Quoting Rilla from 18:39, 19th Dec 2006


I wouldn't want my sexuality discussed on an internet noticeboard...

I was hardly discussing their sexuality, but to please you I have further anonymised the name.

[hr]

IMAGE:img9.imgspot.com/u/04/241/18/160019.jpg "Little!"
http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37100090

[The Unwilling]

Really man, what are you on?

What if he is not out to everyone yet?

You're a tool.

[Midget]

We must have met in person for you to be so perceptive about me. Have I had the honour?

[hr]

IMAGE:img9.imgspot.com/u/04/241/18/160019.jpg "Little!"
http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37100090

[Rilla]

Quoting Midget from 09:20, 20th Dec 2006

I was hardly discussing their sexuality, but to please you I have further anonymised the name.

Um... just to please me? Thanks... I guess..

[hr]

Be good to yourself because nobody else has the power to make you happy.

[Midget]

Quoting Rilla from 10:28, 20th Dec 2006

Quoting Midget from 09:20, 20th Dec 2006

Um... just to please me? Thanks... I guess..

Well I'm not a complete bastard, I am a tool though.

[hr]

IMAGE:img9.imgspot.com/u/04/241/18/160019.jpg "Little!"
http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37100090

[The Unwilling]

Quoting Midget from 10:23, 20th Dec 2006
We must have met in person for you to be so perceptive about me. Have I had the honour?

Yes you have.

[Midget]

I don't who you are obviously. I tried to work out who you are but couldn't. I like what you said on another thread though: "No one ever really means to offend." because if you were a Kantian you would basically have to admit that offending isn't a terribly heinous crime.

Also people do set out to offend and isn't always a bad thing. Like the cartoons of Mohammed which got (loony extreme) Muslims calling for the cartoonist to be beheaded -that really showed them in a good light.

Anyway if you think I actually properly know you then do tell me who you are as I wouldn't like someone I know to be offended by my comments.

[hr]

IMAGE:img9.imgspot.com/u/04/241/18/160019.jpg "Little!"
http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37100090

[DrAlex]

Quoting Midget from 17:35, 20th Dec 2006
Anyway if you think I actually properly know you...

Because I assure you, he'll introduce himself multiple times before you can be considered acquainted.

[hr]

The Sinner: Where no one ever learned "if you haven't got any thing nice to say, don't say anything at all."

[Harry Giles]

[quote="DrAlex"]I can't help but feel that this is mountains out of molehills. The group complains that certain transgendered (who I can only imagine make up an infinitesimal percentage of facebook's user group), and 'poly-amorous' users are not correctly represented by the default profile settings.[/quote]

Not just transgenered, but anyone who feels ambivalent about bracketing themselves into a gender binary.

Why do people feel so strongly about adding shades of grey to the simple default options? What is it really going to achieve.

To understand why people feel strongly, you simply have to be or talk properly to someone who regularly has their identity ignored. You have to imagine what it feels like for an institution to behave as if your identity exists, and not to be given a chance to express your identity. If your identity is excluded, even by something as simple as a form, you are unable to take part in the cultural discourses--your existence is denied. This is the kind of thing it seems reasonable and ordinary for people to feel strongly about.

As an aside, I also find if decidedly unusual for the LGBT demographic to refer to themselves as 'queer'. Isn't the whole point to be accepted and treated the same as everyone else? Surely labelling yourselves as "different" and "unusual" is counter-productive.

"Queer" is now a term with a strong cultural footing, and with a good body of academic study behind it. "Queer Studies" is an entire academic discipline all of its own, with Foucault as its patron saint and Judith Butler its first popularising proponent (see her "Gender Trouble". In this context, "queer" specifically does not mean "gay" or anything similar--it is used by people who feel that their gender or sexuality transcends the boundaries delineated by current cultural norms. In terms of gender, this means that you do not fit into a neat binary of male and female--that the idea of such a gender binary is completely invalid, and excludes a significant proportion of the population. In terms of sexuality, it refers to a fluditiy in sexuality, to anyone who feels that iindividuals cannot be partitioned off into a finite series of boxes, and that such an attempt is alienating an fruitless. These are exactly the things that that Facebook group is about. On the other hand, I personally think that there's still too much of an emphasis on "adding extra options" and allowing people to create their own boxes, which to me is not a particularly queer attitude. But there are a diversity of positions within queer.

There is an ambivalence about whether the use of a term which connotes difference is counter-productive, but the term is not so entrenched, as are phrases like "queering the binary", that there's not much to be done about it. But I feel your comment orginated from a lack of understanding about what "queer" means in this context.

[Harry Giles]

Quoting angel_kohaku from 16:30, 16th Dec 2006
It's also grammatically incorrect. Whether you are a man or a woman is not your gender, that is your SEX. No matter if you have a "transgendering" operation, you will still be male or female. NOTHING will change the fact that males have XY chromosomes and females have XX.

My french teacher used to get really irritated by people using "gender" when they mean sex. He said it was like they were scared of the word "sex". OoooOOooo

There is in much of queer theory a distinction betweem "sex" (as determined by chromosones) and "gender" (performatively determined), although some theorists feel that that distinction is in itself somewhat artificial. However, in addition to this the point of that group is that, especially with gender, but indeed also with sex, a man/woman binary simply does not suffice. There are more chromosonal and genital options, for a start, and far more performative options than a gender binary allows for.

[Harry Giles]

Quoting exnihilo from 20:16, 18th Dec 2006
People do fit into neat little boxes, by and large we can all describe ourselves as closely as we would need to do by listing perhaps half a dozen characteristics.

This is, empirically, nonsense, and would only be said by someone who in their own life has not encountered the sheer diversity of sexes and gender identities which exist.

I see no need to change all the forms in use everywhere to satisfy the one woman who identifies as male but intends to remain physically a woman because her MTF 'girlfriend' prefers him/her that way, or whatever other Jeremy Kyle-esque scenario you can dream up to satisfy the delusion that everyone is an unique and beautiful snowflake.

I never understand this kind of resentful conservative normative statement. I don't understand what motivates someone to resent difference so much that they will oppose its recognition even though such recognitition, which affecting the recognised to a huge degree, would effect the conservative's own life to a minimum.

[the racing tortoise]

Quoting Harry Giles from 19:55, 20th Dec 2006

Quoting exnihilo from 20:16, 18th Dec 2006
People do fit into neat little boxes, by and large we can all describe ourselves as closely as we would need to do by listing perhaps half a dozen characteristics.

This is, empirically, nonsense, and would only be said by someone who in their own life has not encountered the sheer diversity of sexes and gender identities which exist.

I see no need to change all the forms in use everywhere to satisfy the one woman who identifies as male but intends to remain physically a woman because her MTF 'girlfriend' prefers him/her that way, or whatever other Jeremy Kyle-esque scenario you can dream up to satisfy the delusion that everyone is an unique and beautiful snowflake.

I never understand this kind of resentful conservative normative statement. I don't understand what motivates someone to resent difference so much that they will oppose its recognition even though such recognitition, which affecting the recognised to a huge degree, would effect the conservative's own life to a minimum.

but it does affect peoples life to a much greater extent than you would think. should we have transgendered toilets everywhere? who searches them at airports? who can they search? in the real world (set up for two genders) you can't be in a grey area. forms are slightly different but it is still fairly inconvienient for everyone who makes a form to consider every option, even those that will probably never be used. the only total solution would be to dissolve the idea of gender, as catering for every gender isn't feasable. I like the happy medium, in most situations you have two options, pick the one which fits you better. they fit the vast majority very well.

[hr]

eternally optimistic - against all evidence

[angel_kohaku]

Simple:
Male []
Female []
BOB/Not sure []

[hr]

I have always depended on the kindness of strangers

[DrAlex]

Quoting Harry Giles from 19:48, 20th Dec 2006
But I feel your comment orginated from a lack of understanding...

You're probably right, but I feel that my original hypothesis about this group was confirmed.

Quoting Midget from 15:26, 16th Dec 2006
This must be a joke OR someone takes themselves way too seriously.

[hr]

The Sinner: Where no one ever learned "if you haven't got any thing nice to say, don't say anything at all."