Good God, now Chris Benoit too!

[David Bean]

Last month it was Mike Awesome, last week, Sensational Sherri, and yesterday it became known that Chris Benoit was the latest self-inflicted casualty of the professional wrestling world. Those cases were bad enough, but the facts of this one - 'shocking' doesn't even do it justice. It's horrifying.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/s ... TopStories

A double murder/suicide, by the greatest professional wrestler of today, and possibly one of the best ever - a man with no known history of drug abuse, domestic abuse or mental instability, widely regarded as one of the most professional, kind and caring ever to enter a wrestling ring.

What has happened to the world?

[hr]

Psalm 91:7

[DrAlex]

Too bad WWE did their touching tribute before they found out it was a double murder/suicide. Now I hear their erasing all mention of him from the records.

[hr]

The Sinner: Where no one ever learned "if you haven't got any thing nice to say, don't say anything at all."

[David Bean]

Well, they must have had some suspicion, given what they knew at the time - they were the ones who alerted the police in the first place. And it was right, I think, to allow his coleagues to pay their personal tributes to him, and also to celebrate his career, whatever the facts of the case - anyway, the fans would have found it rather odd if there had been no tribute whatsoever. In any case, the facts as we have them at the moment don't add up (why would he have killed his wife, flown to the PPV on Sunday, and then gone home again to kill his son and then commit suicide the next day?), so we'll have to wait and see. Whatever happened, it was undeniably a tragedy

[hr]

Psalm 91:7

[papercutheart]

Quoting David Bean from 21:00, 26th Jun 2007
Well, they must have had some suspicion, given what they knew at the time - they were the ones who alerted the police in the first place. And it was right, I think, to allow his coleagues to pay their personal tributes to him, and also to celebrate his career, whatever the facts of the case - anyway, the fans would have found it rather odd if there had been no tribute whatsoever. In any case, the facts as we have them at the moment don't add up (why would he have killed his wife, flown to the PPV on Sunday, and then gone home again to kill his son and then commit suicide the next day?), so we'll have to wait and see. Whatever happened, it was undeniably a tragedy

[hr]

Psalm 91:7

Cause he's a fucking psycho?

[Paranoid]

From what I read he didn't make the PPV and was replaced at the last minute "for personal reasons"....


Still mighty odd though and I really feel sorry for his extended family.

Really weird too as this weekend I watched an episode of "Hogan Knows Best" where all the old superstars came around for a party...it was amazing seeing all the old faces, but 15 years on (i.e. fat, grey and old!).

[hr]

..I've got this pain down all the diodes on my left side...

[David Bean]

That's what I meant, the reports are mixed. Earlier on they said that he arrived at the arena, but left before the event claiming to have been called away on a family emergency; for that to have been true he'd have to have killed his wife, flown from his home in Atlanta to Houston (presumably leaving his son behind in the house, with his son either not noticing or reporting his mother's death), thought better of it, cooked up some story about an emergency, flown back to Atlanta, killed his son and then committed suicide later on - it just doesn't add up, and certainly can't be explained by mental instability.

Thing is, the WWE has not to my knowledge yet confirmed whether he showed up in Texas or not; otherwise it's possible to imagine that he simply stayed at home after what we might imagine to have been a fight with his wife, and reported a family emergency from Atlanta - which is more plausible anyway considering he no-showed an event the previous night too, which presumably was around the time when the first murder happened.

As things stand, we just don't know what happened.

[hr]

Psalm 91:7

[Cain]

Benoit went home before the weekend and phoned in for a family emergency after Nancy was dead, I believe. The next day, he smothered Daniel. The next day, he hung himself.
The more I hear about this, the less I like it.

[hr]

I hold an element of surprise

[Dirac]

Quoting David Bean from 20:04, 26th Jun 2007
Last month it was Mike Awesome, last week, Sensational Sherri, and yesterday it became known that Chris Benoit was the latest self-inflicted casualty of the professional wrestling world. Those cases were bad enough, but the facts of this one - 'shocking' doesn't even do it justice. It's horrifying.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/s ... TopStories

A double murder/suicide, by the greatest professional wrestler of today, and possibly one of the best ever - a man with no known history of drug abuse, domestic abuse or mental instability, widely regarded as one of the most professional, kind and caring ever to enter a wrestling ring.

What has happened to the world?

[hr]

Psalm 91:7

David,

I find your comment about "no known history of drug abuse" somewhat naive...Ever thought that he just *might* have been using steroidal compounds for a fair while?

[Tigger]

its a conspiracy, he was seen at the arena, the time differential doesnt allow for the flights to happen, and his son is old enough to alert the police, there was no signs of drugs or abuse to the kid, so therefore, it doesnt add up. the texts he sent to his wife are strange too. and how convenient that a vince is dead storyline comes up just before it happens.....


[hr]

My Wings Are Like A Shield of Steel...
(Claire Raynor)

[Raindog]

Fan Dan!

[Cain]

sorry tigger, but conspiracies are always less likely than cock ups, or, the suggestion offered by Ockham's Razor.

[hr]

I hold an element of surprise

[Paranoid]

David, whats that site you get the wrestling shows from, i came across it on your facebook but forgotten it

[hr]

..I've got this pain down all the diodes on my left side...

[Paranoid]

David, whats that site you get the wrestling shows from, i came across it on your facebook but forgotten it

[hr]

..I've got this pain down all the diodes on my left side...

[David Bean]

Dirac - that's exactly my point: he wasn't known to abuse steroids, and the WWE themselves said that he'd been cleared by his last drugs test in April, and I highly doubt they'd risk being caught lying about that at a time like this.

Tigger - sad to say it, but that doesn't stand up. The WWE has now stated that Benoit never made it to the arena, though he was in telephone contact with a couple of his colleagues on Saturday, presumably just after Nancy was killed. Also he didn't text her phone - her phone was used to text some of his colleagues with identical messages to the ones he'd sent (giving his full address); I don't know why he did that, but it isn't worthy of more than a raised eyebrow under the circumstances. As for the Vince storyline, what does that have to do with anything?

Paranoid - the site I started using a few months ago is down at the moment for some reason (went down a couple of weeks ago, in case Tigger starts asking any more questions), but you might try www.whatsoeverforum.com . Monday's Raw isn't up at the moment for some reason, but it could simply be that someone hasn't posted it yet - it doesn't look like they have all that regular a set of posters at the moment.

[hr]

Psalm 91:7

[Dirac]

Quoting David Bean from 20:55, 27th Jun 2007
Dirac - that's exactly my point: he wasn't known to abuse steroids, and the WWE themselves said that he'd been cleared by his last drugs test in April, and I highly doubt they'd risk being caught lying about that at a time like this.

Tigger - sad to say it, but that doesn't stand up. The WWE has now stated that Benoit never made it to the arena, though he was in telephone contact with a couple of his colleagues on Saturday, presumably just after Nancy was killed. Also he didn't text her phone - her phone was used to text some of his colleagues with identical messages to the ones he'd sent (giving his full address); I don't know why he did that, but it isn't worthy of more than a raised eyebrow under the circumstances. As for the Vince storyline, what does that have to do with anything?

Paranoid - the site I started using a few months ago is down at the moment for some reason (went down a couple of weeks ago, in case Tigger starts asking any more questions), but you might try www.whatsoeverforum.com . Monday's Raw isn't up at the moment for some reason, but it could simply be that someone hasn't posted it yet - it doesn't look like they have all that regular a set of posters at the moment.

[hr]

Psalm 91:7

David it's not about lying, steroids is an accepted part of the "sport". You think they all got their physiques naturally? Think again. Alot of people are suggesting that it was the years of him abusing these compounds that affected him enough to do what he did.

[Tigger]

yes, david. probably. though i wish it was a conspiracy. its less horrific than the killed his wife, waited two days, killed his son thing.
god.
what is the world coming too.
next they will start deep frying chocolate.

[hr]

My Wings Are Like A Shield of Steel...
(Claire Raynor)

[David Bean]

Dirac, I'm not sure how familiar you are with professional wrestling, or the effects of anabolic steroids, or the latest news of the case, but what you're saying does not seem right to me.

First of all, whatever is supposed to happen in the past, not long after the death of Eddie Guerrero the WWE instituted what it (rather ungrammatically) termed its 'wellness policy', which involved a strict ban on all non-prescribed drugs, including steroids, backed up by a rigorous testing regime and threats of suspension - several of which have been enacted - for anyone caught in breach. The WWE maintains, as I noted, that Benoit's last test was in April, and he tested negative, and I repeat once again that the idea that the WWE would risk being caught making a false statement about this, what with all the current media attention focussed on them, is not credible. If all you have to say against this is that some wrestlers over the years have abused steroids, your argument does not stand up. Benoit, it's true, was found with steroids in his house, but a prescription was also found there, so absent any toxicological results or information about his recent medical history as yet, it's really pointless to speculate.

Second, yes, I know that a lot of people have suggested that the steroids (even if we concede he was using them) may have contributed to what happened, but then a lot of people have also claimed that the moon landings were hoaxed by the US government, and in neither case does the fact that some people believe in them make them true. From what I've read, 'roid rage' is most probably a myth, or at least far less prevalent than has been suggested, and by no means is it prevalent enough to merit jumping to that conclusion in any one case. Moreover, as the WWE itself has pointed out, even the reported cases of 'roid rage' have never resulted in anything like what the facts of the crime scene make evident happened in this case - the fact that Nancy was tied up, and the prolongued delay between the two murders, indicate some degree of deliberation.

Thirdly, some rather more plausible theories have started to emerge since last night in the US. For one, Chris Nowinski, a former professional wrestler and now an expert on head trauma, has hypothesised that the head injuries suffered by Benoit over the years may have caused some kind of mental instability that would have been enough to push him over the edge after a period of stress. For another, we're starting to hear of the basis of a motive: it seems Benoit's son suffered from a condition called Fragile X syndrome, which is similar to a fairly severe form of autism, and late last week Benoit and Nancy were arguing strenuously about his care - he even went to the doctor on Friday complaining of how much pressure he was under. This also makes sense in light of his phone call to Chavo Guerrero after Nancy's murder, if we substitute the real condition of his son for the placeholder he invented of food poisoning, since he talked of how stressed he was from caring for him. The idea then becomes that he and Nancy fought again, it turned violene, she ended up dead and then he, realising that he'd be sent to prison for what he'd done, killed his son in an attempt to protect him from the aftermath and because he was afraid he wouldn't receive the specialist care he needed - and in the end, he killed himself. The only thing this theory does not explain is how Nancy came to be tied up, but I don't think that's an insurmountable objection and it's still a lot more plausible than this absurd 'roid rage' notion.

[hr]

Psalm 91:7

[romantic]

Quoting David Bean from 20:36, 28th Jun 2007
The only thing this theory does not explain is how Nancy came to be tied up

Maybe she killed the kid first, after all, she would have been under the same stress of caring for him - then, Benoit killed her in a rage upon finding his son dead.

[Dirac]

Quoting David Bean from 20:36, 28th Jun 2007
Dirac, I'm not sure how familiar you are with professional wrestling, or the effects of anabolic steroids, or the latest news of the case, but what you're saying does not seem right to me.

First of all, whatever is supposed to happen in the past, not long after the death of Eddie Guerrero the WWE instituted what it (rather ungrammatically) termed its 'wellness policy', which involved a strict ban on all non-prescribed drugs, including steroids, backed up by a rigorous testing regime and threats of suspension - several of which have been enacted - for anyone caught in breach. The WWE maintains, as I noted, that Benoit's last test was in April, and he tested negative, and I repeat once again that the idea that the WWE would risk being caught making a false statement about this, what with all the current media attention focussed on them, is not credible. If all you have to say against this is that some wrestlers over the years have abused steroids, your argument does not stand up. Benoit, it's true, was found with steroids in his house, but a prescription was also found there, so absent any toxicological results or information about his recent medical history as yet, it's really pointless to speculate.

Second, yes, I know that a lot of people have suggested that the steroids (even if we concede he was using them) may have contributed to what happened, but then a lot of people have also claimed that the moon landings were hoaxed by the US government, and in neither case does the fact that some people believe in them make them true. From what I've read, 'roid rage' is most probably a myth, or at least far less prevalent than has been suggested, and by no means is it prevalent enough to merit jumping to that conclusion in any one case. Moreover, as the WWE itself has pointed out, even the reported cases of 'roid rage' have never resulted in anything like what the facts of the crime scene make evident happened in this case - the fact that Nancy was tied up, and the prolongued delay between the two murders, indicate some degree of deliberation.

Thirdly, some rather more plausible theories have started to emerge since last night in the US. For one, Chris Nowinski, a former professional wrestler and now an expert on head trauma, has hypothesised that the head injuries suffered by Benoit over the years may have caused some kind of mental instability that would have been enough to push him over the edge after a period of stress. For another, we're starting to hear of the basis of a motive: it seems Benoit's son suffered from a condition called Fragile X syndrome, which is similar to a fairly severe form of autism, and late last week Benoit and Nancy were arguing strenuously about his care - he even went to the doctor on Friday complaining of how much pressure he was under. This also makes sense in light of his phone call to Chavo Guerrero after Nancy's murder, if we substitute the real condition of his son for the placeholder he invented of food poisoning, since he talked of how stressed he was from caring for him. The idea then becomes that he and Nancy fought again, it turned violene, she ended up dead and then he, realising that he'd be sent to prison for what he'd done, killed his son in an attempt to protect him from the aftermath and because he was afraid he wouldn't receive the specialist care he needed - and in the end, he killed himself. The only thing this theory does not explain is how Nancy came to be tied up, but I don't think that's an insurmountable objection and it's still a lot more plausible than this absurd 'roid rage' notion.

[hr]

Psalm 91:7

I am very well aware of the effects of androgens thank you David, and I would hazard to say moreso than you. I do not need to be involved in the WWE scene to see that people do not get as big as wrestlers do with the all year round vascularity and lean physique to boot without some sort of androgenic support.

The fact of the matter, regardless of whether you stand by this notion of testing or not, is that ALL of these boys, even the ones that seem somewhat out of shape will be on all manner of stuff - Test (or any other compound), Slin, GH, Thyroid meds and I could go on. I don't know about you, but have you ever wondered how some of the women get as "manly" as they do? Or what about the protruding guts found on some of the men, symptomatic of the use and abuse of GH. As for Benoit's prescription, ever heard of a mail order pharmacy, or even doctors prescribing them illegit (*shock horror*)?

Have a read of this

http://boxingwrestling.suite101.com/art ... id_scandal

[Cain]

Quoting romantic from 22:41, 28th Jun 2007
Maybe she killed the kid first, after all, she would have been under the same stress of caring for him - then, Benoit killed her in a rage upon finding his son dead.

No.

She died first.

A day later, Daniel died and a day after that, Benoit killed himself.

[hr]

I hold an element of surprise