A question for all pedants

[Gubbins]

This is annoying me. I'm in the process of writing a paper, and growing up at that particular time in the 80s where they didn't teach you a whole lot about English terminology, I can't seem to get a "plain English" answer to this question:

When is it appropriate to use "dependant" rather than "dependent"?

I'm posting this here because I need an answer with reasonably rapidity and because it vexes me. I'm terribly vexed.

[hr]

...then again, that is only my opinion.

[orudge]

"a dependant" versus "dependent upon", perhaps? I haven't checked that, but that's what my instinct tells me.

(edit: checked it out and that is indeed correct.)

[hr]

http://www.owenrudge.net/
http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37103734

[exnihilo]

Traditionally, dependent is the adjective and dependant the noun.

In American English, and increasingly in British English, the dependant variant is dropping out of use. Rather like in such examples as practice/practise, licence/license, even discreet/discrete and, more vexingly, alternative/alternate. The language is shrinking daily as we lose the distinction between these cognate pairs.

[Gubbins]

That's what I suspected. The day is saved, the Sinner helps again!

(not to mention effect/affect)

[hr]

...then again, that is only my opinion.

[exnihilo]

Grr. Hackles... Rising...

[The Jaspar]

Quoting exnihilo from 16:51, 8th Aug 2007
Traditionally, dependent is the adjective and dependant the noun.

In American English, and increasingly in British English, the dependant variant is dropping out of use. Rather like in such examples as practice/practise, licence/license, even discreet/discrete and, more vexingly, alternative/alternate. The language is shrinking daily as we lose the distinction between these cognate pairs.

Please enlighten me on the differences between those word pairs. Having spent most of my life in America, I would only ever use one of each word, perhaps with the exception of alternative/alternate (though I don't really know the difference).

[exnihilo]

Danger, a thread where pedantry is actively encouraged!

Practice - n., habit or custom, as in "it is not our practice".
Practise - v., to engage in or carry out, as in "practising the violin/medicine".

Licence - n., official document, as in TV Licence or driving licence.
License - v., permit or alllow, as in "to give license to do something".

For licence/license compare the stresses in PERmit and perMIT. Oddly, American English retains the the -ice of practice, but the -ise of licence.

Discreet - adj., circumspect or cautious, as in "to meet discreetly".
Discrete - adj., distinct or separate, as in "existing in discrete locations".

Alternate - adj., every other, as in "the tutorials are on alternate Mondays".
Alternative - adj., another option, as in "an alternative date will be set for the meeting".

Effect - v., to bring about, as in "to effect a change".
Affect - v., to influence, as in "the weather affected the crops badly".

(Note: there are plenty of other usages for each word, and indeed exceptions to some of the above, but the examples I've used are designed to show which to use where confusion might arise.)

[Thackary]

For picking the correct noun/adjective when dealing with licence/license, I find it useful to compare advice/advise.

-ice being the noun; -ise being the verb.

[edited - schoolboy error]

[bdw]

Quoting thackary from 12:23, 9th Aug 2007
For picking the correct noun/adjective when dealing with licence/license, I find it useful to compare advice/advise.

-ice being the noun; -ise being the adjective.

verb rather than adjective?

(pedantricus maximus)

[Frank]

Quoting exnihilo from 07:40, 9th Aug 2007
License - v., permit or alllow, as in "to give license to do something".

Allow only has two 'l's.

[hr]

"There is only ever one truth. Things are always black or white, there's no such thing as a shade of grey. If you think that something is a shade of grey it simply means that you don't fully understand the situation. The truth is narrow and the path of the pursuit of truth is similarly narrow."

[Alistair]

I had never heard of the word "discreet" until this thread, I always, as a Brit, thought both meanings were "discrete". Learn something new everyday.

[David Bean]

I must say I've never heard a case of 'alternate' being confused with 'alternative'. Remember also, of course, that 'alternate' can be a verb, meaning 'to do, act, etc. by turns different things, ways, etc.', or something like that.

[hr]

Psalm 91:7

[The Jaspar]

Exnihilo, thank you for enlightening me. I usually use good grammar and word choice, but it really disturbs me when I am proofreading something I've written, and I managed to get then/than, to/too, etc. mixed up. I never used to get those wrong until after one of those "don't confuse similar words" grammar lessons from high school.

[exnihilo]

Quoting David Bean from 00:10, 10th Aug 2007
I must say I've never heard a case of 'alternate' being confused with 'alternative'. Remember also, of course, that 'alternate' can be a verb, meaning 'to do, act, etc. by turns different things, ways, etc.', or something like that.

It's extremely common, especially for speakers of American English. We're moving to an alternate venue. No. You're moving to an alternative venue.

Also, I did say that each word had plenty of other meanings, and the verb to alternate could scarcely be confused with the adjective alternative.

Also, while we're at it, another pair:

Imminent - adj., likely to occur at any moment, as in the train's arrival is imminent.
Immanent - adj., existing in the mind or, of God, within the universe.

[eagle]

Affluent vs effluent

[Gubbins]

Quoting eagle from 14:56, 10th Aug 2007
Affluent vs effluent

That's a good one, if a little more distantly related. Particularly since those folks who are affluent would tend to pronounce it as effluent. As for those who are effluent...

[hr]

...then again, that is only my opinion.

[maenad]

Is orient/orientate an American-British difference too?

[hr]

Tommy can you hear me?

[exnihilo]

I'm not sure what standard American usage is on that, but my instinct would be that most Americans would use orient as a catch-all, as would increasing numbers of British English speakers, the additional syllable '-ate' and it's friends are starting to go out of fashion as they can feel clumsy in faster-paced, modern speech.

[Guest]

Quoting David Bean from 00:10, 10th Aug 2007
I must say I've never heard a case of 'alternate' being confused with 'alternative'. Remember also, of course, that 'alternate' can be a verb, meaning 'to do, act, etc. by turns different things, ways, etc.', or something like that.

It's extremely common, especially in American English, "we're moving to an alternate venue", no, you're not, you're moving to an alternative venue. And I did say that each word had other meanings, as a verb to alternate it could scarcely be confused with alternative.