Posted from an I-phone

[Raindog]

I have a nokia 6310, so smoke that beaaatch. It even sends messages. I think i will selotape a tesco value camera to it so i can say it takes pictures, giving other people hardons. Or maybe just stick it up my asshole and keep calling myself. rip it up big style

[Ben Reilly]

Quoting David Bean from 00:47, 18th Sep 2007
I think their decision to award an exclusive contract at all was, frankly, a disgrace - in fact I'm surprised the Office of Fair Trading is letting them get away with it, considering how draconian they can be in other, far less deserving cases.

[hr]

Psalm 91:7

David, given your (libertarian) views I am very surprised to hear you say this: what on earth reason could there be to make a non-monopolist release their product in any way other than how they wish?

Anyway, I waited, saw how much they were (and the stupid pricing of the contracts) and ordered a Sony Ericsson P1i. I'll wait 18 months and see what the next generation is like.

(I'm bored, can you tell?)

[Malcolm]

Like I said, Apple are all about the $$$ and I really can't see why people see them as a friendly Microsoft alternative when their stuff is just as proprietary and obscure.

O2 seems to be the most expensive and offer the least value for money, hence Apple fell in love with them. It's for that reason alone that Steve Jobs labelled them the "best carrier" in the UK.

And from what I'm reading the iPhone is lacking in fairly standard features like no 3G (well, it's not as widespread in the US so I suppose that's to be expected). I personally don't see the point in smartphones anyway, my SE K800i does way more than I could ever want and I've got my PC for everything else.

[househunter]

Other basic features that it lacks are the ability to send and receive picture messages (why give it a camera in the first place?) and the only custom ringtones you can use are the ones that you have to buy from Apple.

Apple fans always seem to be happy paying more for less.

[exnihilo]

Quoting [James] from 18:12, 18th Sep 2007

Quoting exnihilo from 13:50, 18th Sep 2007
It's really not worth getting all het up about though.

Yes, because if there's one thing you've taught us all during your time on The Sinner it's the virtue of letting things lie and not getting agitated about the little things. Oh, wait...

Aha. Ahahahahaha. Brilliant.

[rob 'f*ck off' wine boy]

We love you <3

iLove

[David Bean]

Quoting Ben Reilly from 21:03, 18th Sep 2007

David, given your (libertarian) views I am very surprised to hear you say this: what on earth reason could there be to make a non-monopolist release their product in any way other than how they wish?

There's a lot of truth in that, I admit. However, as someone who works in business now and has seen some of the absurd rulings the OFT has made supposedly in the name of combatting anti-competitive practices, that they should allow something like this to happen I do find very surprising.

I've been on O2 for years, by the way, and have generally found it to be highly satisfactory, but there's no way I'd pay that much for a phone even if they plated the thing in gold. I'm not going to say it's rubbish just for the sake of bandwagon-jumping, but for the same reason I'm not going to say it looks brilliant either. It looks to me like a good little entertainment-focused device with an emphasis on the usability of some of its functions, and limitations in other areas - much like any other market-leading smartphone. Nothing that justifies either the price or the self-satisfaction of Apple's hype machine, which, incidentally, is I think the main reason why a lot of people react against their products.

If only Psion had stayed in the consumer electronics business and started turning out smartphones - then we'd have a real masterpiece. But now their engineers are all either making chips and software (including the OS) for most other people's devices, or running Apple. Ah well, such is life.

[hr]

Psalm 91:7

[Ben Reilly]

As a point of interest, can you identify some of these rulings please?

I've always found o2 to be OK, but the fact that their website doesn't work properly in Safari is highly annoying.

I would assume that's going to be fixed.

[David Bean]

I'm not sure I can go into specifics, but they forced the sales of some branches of one of our business when we took over a competitor recently, despite there being nobody else who had any real interest in paying a fair market price for the branches in question, nor any impact on the price or quality of the products and services offered. I was astonished to discover that, should we have failed to find a buyer for the enforced dispersals before a deadline, they had the authority effectively to seize the assets and sell them by force, for whatever pittance they fancied.

But it's legal for someone who wants a particular kind of phone to be forced into paying over the odds to a single, particular network? Sure, Brutus is an honourable man!

[hr]

Psalm 91:7

[Ben Reilly]

Very different cases.

When your employer took over a certain chain of shops (I take it this is the chain that had a branch on South Street?) they would have had what would be legally defined a monopoly in an economically significant retail sector.

The fact that nobody else wanted to buy the shops is immaterial, there are significant public policy reasons for encouraging competition in that market sector: allowing the purchase to have gone through without conditions would have restricted the development of that competition.

And anyway, the rules regarding monopolies and organic/inorganic growth are very different.

edit: I've not been on the Sinner in more than a year - and that stupid bug where it creates a new page with no posts is still here? Bloody hell.

[David Bean]

Yes, I'm quite aware of the differences in the cases; my argument is that they're the wrong ones. For a start, there were no significant barriers to entry in the market sector I'm referring to (yes, I work for the Co-operative Group, but there are different businesses I could be talking about), and even if there had been these wouldn't have been made any worse by the fact that we'd taken over a competitor, so there was no restriction in the case - in fact, had we decided to try any of what are commonly held to be 'monopolistic' practices in that area, like raising prices unreasonably or not bothering to provide good service, that would have been all the more encouraging to a potential competitor, who rightly would have come in and undercut us. I don't think it's legitimate for an arm of the government not only to 'encourage' competition in that sort of case but to enforce it, but then to stand idly by whilst Apple and O2 pull a swindle. I don't really think the government ought to intervene is, well, just about anything, really, but if it's going to do so anyway, it might as well try getting it right every now and again.

[hr]

Psalm 91:7

[Ben Reilly]

Why should they intervene now though? In what way is it a swindle? If people don't want to pay, then don't. I'm certainly not.

[DrAlex]

I'm posting on a Blackberry Curve in my flat - St Andrews.

[hr]

The Sinner: Where no one ever learned "if you haven't got any thing nice to say, don't say anything at all."

[Ben Reilly]

Quoting Dralex from 00:27, 20th Sep 2007
I'm posting on a Blackberry Curve in my flat - St Andrews.

What's it like? My work doesn't support Blackberries, but does SE machines so I didn't even look at it seriously.

[DrAlex]

It's a solid phone. Would have liked a phone with WiFi, but you can't win em all.

[hr]

The Sinner: Where no one ever learned "if you haven't got any thing nice to say, don't say anything at all."

[Steveo]

That's why I went for the XDA Orbit, the WiFi. Well, the GPS is also a big bonus.

[hr]

Get off my internet.

[bdw]

Quoting Dralex from 00:27, 20th Sep 2007
I'm posting on a Blackberry Curve in my flat - St Andrews.

[hr]

The Sinner: Where no one ever learned "if you haven't got any thing nice to say, don't say anything at all."

You can post on the blackberry? My old 7230 allows me to log in and view threads but posting requires the opening of a second window, which this antique can't cope with. Can you open multiple windows on the Curve?

[munchingfoo]

I didn't actually buy the iPhone btw. My contract on my current model (Nokia E61) runs out around November and it was 18 months so i think I have enough negotiating power to get an iPhone free.

[hr]

Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!

[DrAlex]

Quoting bdw from 13:31, 20th Sep 2007
You can post on the blackberry? My old 7230 allows me to log in and view threads but posting requires the opening of a second window, which this antique can't cope with. Can you open multiple windows on the Curve?

You can open multiple windows, but I haven't fully figured out how to shift between them. Opera Mini Beta 4 for the win. www.operamini.com

[hr]

The Sinner: Where no one ever learned "if you haven't got any thing nice to say, don't say anything at all."

[Ben Reilly]

Quoting munchingfoo from 17:13, 25th Sep 2007
... so i think I have enough negotiating power to get an iPhone free.

Not a chance.