English/Scottish Customs

[Pussycat]

It's definitely not a tradition in this country, just a wannabe posh people thing (or a genuine European thing).

I'm not a touchy touchy person, when I see a friend I don't scream their name and give them a cuddle. But that just might be me and nothing to do with my nationality. The sheep girls did it at school mind you.

Mwah mwah. Do this at your peril - you may be pointed and laughed at.

[Mando]

As an English girl starting at St Andrews very soon I find Scottish men quite reticent and distant.

They are unaware of how to respond to some traditional customs e.g. the pec on each cheek.

It is not just a 'rich kid thing' because most Europeans - especially the French and Itallians respond to this with the response it requires.

It is also not just that we have been packed off to Swiss finishing schools to learn these sort of social-climbing tactics. It is just simply being curteous. If someone does this you should respond and be joyful and not curl into your shell!

Scots and perhaps the Welsh have a tendency to be more reticent than their English counterparts (and the Irish). They just need to loosen-up a bit and respect some of the customs they may come across....they do exist!

Please note I mean no offence and am only conveying my own opinion.

Mando xx (formely the other Amanda)

[Guest]

hmmmm, i think around most scots, if you attempted any touchy-feeliness, you would make them feel very un-comfortable, esp. west-coasters like me.

this is scotland, and you should adjust to the social norms of scotland, i put up with foreign ways when in foreign lands, and foreigners should realise they are NOT at home - and they ought to at least attempt to confrom to normality.

a hug or a kiss of any sort is reserved for a girlfriend or boyfriend, and you can seriously offend people by being too touchy around their significant others.

[EviLTwiN]

I have to say that if a guy tried to kiss a gf of mine on both cheeks i'd be annoyed.

It may be customary to kiss like this in other places, but it is very impolite to not take into account other peoples cultures. ie. if someone is in scotland and they know i am scottish then they would be very impolite try to kiss my girlfriend on both cheeks unless she was also european. why? because they should know that it may offend me or make me feel uncomfortable since it isn't a custom here... that means that if they went ahead and did it anyway it would be pretty offensive as they're basically saying they don't care what i think, or how i may feel.

When in scotland... be aware of how you may offend people or make people feel awkward due to differences in customs.

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[Neferet]

[s]Unregisted User Mando wrote on 21:51, 14th Sep 2003:
It is just simply being curteous.

Only if in a country where this is custom, ie not Scotland or the rest of the UK. And there is a stigma around doing it if you are not European, you are viewed as a social climber if you do it.

I think I would certainly be offended if someone tried to do that to me when its blatantly obvious that its not something I do. If of course I was in France meeting French people it would be fine, but with non European people? I don't think so.

[Buzzboy]

Yes, but it has its advantages, no?

I agree with a lot of people here that cultural sensitivity is important, but it works both ways. Natives should also be culturally tolerant too. I think it is unreasonable for anyone to expect an italian to act like a scotsman, just because he is in scotland.

If a European male friend of my gfs kissed her on both cheeks, then I wouldn't be offended, because I realise the social signficance of the act. If it makes me feel uncomfortable, that is my problem, however, if it makes my gf feel uncomfortable then she should mention this to her friend.

[hr]On the Seventh Day God said to Adam:

"Can I leave it with you?"

[Neferet]

Yeah but I think that's what people are trying to say. If your European then fine, but if you are not then what are you doing?

It is European custom not a British one.

[The_Farwall]

[s]Neferet wrote on 09:30, 15th Sep 2003:
Yeah but I think that's what people are trying to say. If your European then fine, but if you are not then what are you doing?

It is [i]European custom not a British one.[/i]

Exactly.
Was just about to reply to Mando's complaint about Scottish men being uncomfortable with this 'tradition'. I have to say, I'm English and the only time in my life when I'ved ever given or recieved such cheek-kissing was when congratulating my cousins when they've just gotten married (well, my female cousins or the bride of my male cousins).
And if anyone I know tried it on me I'd run a mile, no matter how well I knew them. Aquaintances get a smile, friends get a grin and a wave, good friends get a nice big hug. Kissing is saved for very good friends, and in that case I'd be a little disapointed if the cheek was the best I got.
But yeah, I think Netferet said what I really wanted to say, definately not a British custom or tradition.

[Al]

What's even worse, I think, are those (usually) yah girls who, on parting, fling their arms around each other with much kissing and screeching of goodbye. Generally they produce such fervent farewells that an onlooker could be forgiven for thinking that they expect never to see each other again and not that they are merely parting for a few hours.

[hr]"Rest is not idleness, and to lie sometimes on the grass on a summer day listening to the murmur of water, or watching the clouds float across the sky, is hardly a waste of time".

[Guest]

Posted by Unregistered User Mando at 21:51, 14th Sep



"As an English girl starting at St Andrews very soon I find Scottish men quite reticent and distant.

They are unaware of how to respond to some traditional customs e.g. the pec on each cheek"

That comment is quite patronising, as
a peck on the cheek to a friend isn't traditional in Scotland.

"Posted by Unregistered User Mando at 21:51, 14th Sep

They just need to loosen-up a bit and respect some of the customs they may come across....they do exist!"

I'm sorry, but thats just rubbish. Scottish people are incredibly tolerant and will always respect other people's customs, unless they are down-right offensive.

[Guest]

Since when did we have to get so secular about it all? Unique Customs are great and should endure, but cultures and societies have always been borrowing and adapting traditions from other cultures to suit their own means. Even our national dish, fish 'n' chips, isn't actually British in Origin.

I don't actually know any really posh people and an aspiring social climber in my town is someone who calls themselves 'upper middle class', so I've largely escaped this side of the phenomena. Personally I don't kiss on both sides of the cheek, though I do kiss my very best friends [both male and female] briefly on the lips when I see them. One of them said it made them feel uncomfortable, so I never did it again. End of story. Where's the problem?

[Buzzboy]

I mean it's not as if two yah girls kissing each other on the cheeks in the street does any harm to anyone else, why not let them be?

If their actions bother you (in this instance) I would be so bold as to suggest it is YOU that has the problem, not them.

So what if they went to Swiss finishing school where everyone kisses each other on the cheeks 24/7, does that make them so dispicable? They were brought up that way and it is part of their culture - we should respect that.

"I'm sorry, but thats just rubbish. Scottish people are incredibly tolerant and will always respect other people's customs, unless they are down-right offensive."

Except in this case we appear to have Scottish people on this site who find the action of two girls from Britain (oh, incidently we ARE part of europe too) kissing each other on the cheeks "down-right offensive". Don't you find that ridiculous?

[hr]On the Seventh Day God said to Adam:

"Can I leave it with you?"

[Pussycat]

Not when you actually grow up with people morphing from their old selves into sheep girl who emulate actual European people because they think it raises their social standing.

That kind of behaviour I find laughable, as it is so false. Obviously people who are European, thats a different story. It is those that do it in such a false way that are amusing, and I'd imagine anyone approached in such a way by these people would be offended - their actions convey falseness and thus a lack of interest in you as a person.

And if you think the majority of people who do this in St Andrews do so because they were brought up in a finishing school, then I think you'l be disappointed. The people I have seen doing it are quite obviously yah wannabes, not neccesarily posh but very very false.

[Pussycat]

And by European I mean those on the continent.

[niall]

[s]EviLTwiN wrote on 04:00, 15th Sep 2003:
I have to say that if a guy tried to kiss a gf of mine on both cheeks i'd be annoyed.

It may be customary to kiss like this in other places, but it is very impolite to not take into account other peoples cultures. ie. if someone is in scotland and they know i am scottish then they would be very impolite try to kiss my girlfriend on both cheeks unless she was also european. why? because they should know that it may offend me or make me feel uncomfortable since it isn't a custom here... that means that if they went ahead and did it anyway it would be pretty offensive as they're basically saying they don't care what i think, or how i may feel.

When in scotland... be aware of how you may offend people or make people feel awkward due to differences in customs.


tho evil, would you be fine if it was at new year or christmas.

in my view thats the only time this "custom" happens here!

[EviLTwiN]

yeah, new year is fine. The point about every day kissing isn't that it'd make me feel uneasy, as it probably wouldn't, especially if i knew the person kissing a gf of mine.

The point is that the guy doing the kissing shouldn't be doing it in my presence unless he is sure that he won't offend me (given that it is something scots tend to reserve for very close friends). It's called being aware...

In other words, people should be aware of other peoples customs AND lack of customs. It's not that it's make me uneasy, so much as that the act of doing it and not being aware that as a scot i might take offense is extremely rude.

I don't have a problem with kissing, and to the earlier post by someone, other people can do it if they like, i already said i think it's kind of nice.

It's just that I wouldn't go to another country and do something that i considered normal if i KNEW it could be taken as offensive, unless i knew the people involved really well.

Likewise europeans shouldn't come to scotland and kiss every girl they meet unless they want to cause unpleasant situations.

It's not the act thats offensive, it's the lack of consideration and awareness for other countries customs (or lack of your own countries customs).



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[mossop]

I was living in Barcelona last year, and I have to say that I found the kissing on both cheeks thing really pretentious and annoying. You get introduced to someone and you kiss on both cheeks, you see someone you know in the street and you kiss on both cheeks. It was nice to begin with but after a few months of it, I got really fed up with it. But that's just me, and I was in their country, so I felt obliged to go along with their customs. I wouldn't do it here though!

[hr]Mmmm Beer, the cause of and solution to all of life's problems....

[Anon.]

I think people should stop getting so het up about this and just take the thing in the spirit in which it is intended, whatever the cultural background: a simple friendly greeting.

EviLTwiN wrote on 04:00, 15th Sep 2003:
I have to say that if a guy tried to kiss a gf of mine on both cheeks i'd be annoyed.

I'm also rather unsure quite why some people are so uncomfortable about it - I mean to say, it's not as if the bloke is giving her a full-on snog, or even kissing her on the lips.

I'm personally not terribly fond of it myself, and so would never instigate a kiss, but if someone else does, it would be unbelievably rude simply to lean back and stare blankly at them.

[Buzzboy]

[s]Pussycat wrote on 12:20, 15th Sep 2003:
Not when you actually grow up with people morphing from their old selves into sheep girl who emulate actual European people because they think it raises their social standing.

That kind of behaviour I find laughable, as it is so false. Obviously people who are European, thats a different story. It is those that do it in such a false way that are amusing, and I'd imagine anyone approached in such a way by these people would be offended - their actions convey falseness and thus a lack of interest in you as a person.

And if you think the majority of people who do this in St Andrews do so because they were brought up in a finishing school, then I think you'l be disappointed. The people I have seen doing it are quite obviously yah wannabes, not neccesarily posh but very very false.


So your problem is actually nothing to do with customs, but your sense of superiority over people who practice what is, in your opinion, and act of social gratification.

Instead of looking down on these people and commiting your own act of snobbery, why don't you just ignore them? Or better still have a conversation with one of them.


[hr]
On the Seventh Day God said to Adam:

"Can I leave it with you?"

[Buzzboy]

[s]EviLTwiN wrote on 15:20, 15th Sep 2003:


The point is that the guy doing the kissing shouldn't be doing it in my presence unless he is sure that he won't offend me (given that it is something scots tend to reserve for very close friends). It's called being aware...



Surely all he should be worrying about is whether or not it offends your girlfriend as it is her the act is being performed on not you. Or, are you really that much of a neaderthal that you don't like to see your girlfriend being touched by other men?



[hr]
On the Seventh Day God said to Adam:

"Can I leave it with you?"