Where is William?

[Terri]

You know, I am an American who was thinking of coming to St. Andrew's, but have been made hesitant by all the William-talk. Everyone on these boards seems to be obsessed with the fact that he attends this school, yet he never shows up in defense of himself or at least in opposition to your comments. I find it sad that he doesn't feel able to speak for himself. I find it more upsetting, however, that none of the students allow him to do so. If such mockery is what I should expect from a university of St. Andrew's prestige, give me community college. If anyone has any serious advice regarding the school or would like to set me straight about the school's atmosphere, please feel free to email me at tehwee_4@yahoo.com. Thanks!
(Sorry for sounding so harsh, but I am relatively shy and the negative attitude toward Americans isn't something I would want to deal with as a student trying to enjoy another culture.)

[Al]

First of all, it's St Andrews, and not St Andrew's. Secondly, is William mentioned a lot? If he is then I have failed to notice, and I would hazard a guess that people singling him out (like you have done) would be more difficult to take than a bit of criticism. Thirdly, the atmosphere at the university is generally very good. A few people dislike the place but the vast majority have a great time. Americans are not hated. Well, not by everyone.

[hr]It all depends what you mean by.....

[Zombie Sheep]

I would imagine that the reason that the Prince does not, as you put it, defend himself on this board, is because he doesn't have the time to browse the internet. I would imagine, and this is only guess work, that he spends the time mixing with people from a vaguely similar background, not posting messages on internet notice boards. I believe it unlikely that he would be allowed to post messages, incase any controversial remarks should be made. Next I would like to reply to your comment that we students do not allow the Prince to defend himself. This is untrue and I am unsure as to where you received this information. I am unaware of any conditions imposed by thesinner.co.uk that stops any royalty from posting messages. Maybe James can confirm this. Finally, what gives you the idea that this board is "Prince obsessed"? There are a few posts, as there would inevitably be at any university where royalty attended. But to say the sinner is obsessed, then you are completely wrong. Forgive me, but I am a bit angry at what you said. Maybe that fact that you just say what you feel like with absolutely no way to back it up and no thought to what you are saying and how others may feel about it is why there is some anti-american feelings at this University?

[Oli]

[s]Unregisted User Terri wrote on 07:59, 30th Aug 2002:
You know, I am an American who was thinking of coming to St. Andrew's, but have been made hesitant by all the William-talk.

To be fair, there's been more talk about many other things.

Everyone on these boards seems to be obsessed with the fact that he attends this school, yet he never shows up in defense of himself or at least in opposition to your comments.

I think you've been reading only the bits you want to read. You'll actually find that most people on these boards couldn't give a stuff. Many are prepared to honour his privacy and simply accept him as yet another student, no different from the rest.

Why should he defend himself? Does it really matter?

I find it sad that he doesn't feel able to speak for himself. I find it more upsetting, however, that none of the students allow him to do so. If such mockery is what I should expect from a university of St. Andrew's prestige, give me community college.

Again, if you read the messages posted around these boards, you'll find an equal amount of opposition to any mockery you claim to find.

If anyone has any serious advice regarding the school [s](University - Oli) or would like to set me straight about the school's [/i][s](University's) atmosphere, please feel free to email me at tehwee_4@yahoo.com. Thanks!
(Sorry for sounding so harsh, but I am relatively shy and the negative attitude toward Americans isn't something I would want to deal with as a student trying to enjoy another culture.)


Surely you must be able to appreciate, or at least take into consideration both the good and the bad aspects of another culture before beginning to enjoy it. You can't simply pick and choose which parts you want to be exposed to. For example, you wouldn't go to India to experience the food, but criticise them for living in conditions different from your own.

Take the rough with the smooth.
Embrace diversity.
Realise that to achieve a decent level of civilisation, you must have conflicts of opinion and attitude.

And most of all, don't take for gospel the things you read on internet message boards, or the national (and international) press.
With regard to these message boards, you'll probably find that it's mainly the most outspoken members of the St Andrews community who post messages here. As a result, you're going to see far more strong opinions. The people who are bothered about Prince William being at St Andrews don't need to make the effort to comment that they're not bothered.

Also, although the majority of the posts on these boards are valid opinions, there will be one thrown in here and there to spark up a debate.
Bear it in mind.

[The_Farwall]

Y'know, there is only a small proportion of the student population that posts on this website. I'm sure they are a good few hundred (if not thousands, I'm never sure of the number of students in this place) students who have never ever seen these message boards let alone posted on them so it's hardly suprising that William Spenser/Wales/Whatever-he-wants-to-be-known-as doesn't either.

I don't really believe that people have anything against the guy personally, I've yet to see anyone admit to actually knowing him on these message boards. The thing that people might have against him is a general oposition to the Monarchy as a whole, they play very few official roles except for ceremonial ones these days but still large quantities of money from the government (ie from our taxes) to keep up their lavish life style.
Also, the announcement of his choice to attend St Andrews turned our normally quiet, little town into a media circus. They have been several, very biased newspaper articles and a television documentary that where all heavily weighted to make St Andrews appear to be a very upper-class, snobbish and decadent university. The poorer and working class students that make up a large proportion of the population find it quite annoying when the student body that they're a part off is being criticised for being snobbish and decadent and we're all struggling to survive on student loans and overdrafts.

It's my opinion that the negative comments directed against William that you refer too (though I can't remember any being posted for a long time, the media interest has passed into memory now), are based on these things rather than anything against him as a person. As I said, I would doubt that most of the users of these message boards have ever met the guy.

As for the attitude against Americans, as much as we like to generalise and complain about stereotypes, I very much doubt you'd meet anyone over here who will dismiss you or attack you just for your nationality. And in my experience, the American stereotype that Brits tend to complain about is the 'loud, arrogant and overbearing' one. And even then, there are British people like that too (you might have noticed people complaining about Yahs, who vaguely equivalent) as well as other foreign students who fall into the category.
If you are as shy as you say then I guess the first impression you'll be making with people will be as quite a quiet, introverted person. They're hardly going to take offense at you 'American-ness' really.

[hr]"As you pick up the toothbrush a tree outside the window collapses.
There is no causal relationship between these two events."

[James Baster]

[s]Unregisted User Terri wrote on 07:59, 30th Aug 2002:
You know, I am an American who was thinking of coming to St. Andrew's, but have been made hesitant by all the William-talk. Everyone on these boards seems to be obsessed with the fact that he attends this school,

I think in fact the most threads about Prince William on this board are by people like you who drop by and ask questions about him. Very few of the regulars have commented on him.

yet he never shows up in defense of himself or at least in opposition to your comments.

I dont think there has been anything said here that he would have to "reply" to. People here have shown restraint in not doscussing him to much. However, thats mostly because most people, including me, think theres not that much to discuss.

I find it sad that he doesn't feel able to speak for himself. I find it more upsetting, however, that none of the students allow him to do so.

Where on earth are you getting that from?

If such mockery

I have not heard, here or in private conversation, anyone mock the prince seriously.

is what I should expect from a university of St. Andrew's prestige, give me community college. If anyone has any serious advice regarding the school or would like to set me straight about the school's atmosphere, please feel free to email me at tehwee_4@yahoo.com. Thanks!
(Sorry for sounding so harsh, but I am relatively shy and the negative attitude toward Americans isn't something I would want to deal with as a student trying to enjoy another culture.)


I'm not even going to start on this one. Some people have an excessively nasty attitude to America, but not much worse than I find most Americans have, and I've never seen anyone be nasty to Americans.

P.S. I'm not Ranting at you because your American. Some of my best friends are American. I'm ranting at you because you are so very wrong.

[hr]
[s]"You liar! You've got Antifreeze!"[/s]

[Guest]

I totally disagree with the original comment. As a casual outsider (my daughter attends) who has watched this message board since last year, I have been amazed at the LACK OF POSTS about 'him'. I have wondered in odd moments if there was some censorship going on (sorry James - I don't really believe that's true) that was artifically limiting the number of posts. I now believe that the lack of posts is due to the average student's desire to do the right thing and let 'him' attend the University and to not become part of the freak show that surrounds the life of a celebrity. Most of the posts about 'him' seem to come from outsiders or media types trying to stimulate something they can write about.

Why hasn't he defended himself? Against what? I haven't detected anything of substance that he should be offended about.

Why doesn't he post? For all you know, he could be posting under one of the unregistered names. That's one of the blessing and curses of the message boards.

[Oli]

Good point there. He may very well be posting.

And possibly even as a registered user... Who's to say that Triple? isn't really who he claims to be...?

[underworlddreams]

And if all of these replies aren't enough, I'll put it all into simple English (or 'American English', if you prefer...)

1) Prince William is just another student at St Andrews with more people interested in his progress than just his family. Big deal. I've not really met, spoken to, or seen anyone truly obsessed, and if there are such folk about, they won't survive long at St Andrews (no apostrophe) ignoring the real reason why people come to university (not school) - their degree.

2) No one really discriminates, takes the mickey out of, or otherwise impinges upon the basic human rights of Americans (or other nationalities, for that matter) very seriously at all - and if they do, I am most certain they are in the minority, and can thus be easily ignored. If you're worried about being American in an anti-American atmosphere, be thankful you're not, for example, Israeli in a Palistinian 'atmsophere'...

Hmmm... Looking back, it wasn't quite as brief as I was hoping for. I could really get into this rant-business...

[hr]Discourage in-breeding - ban country music!

[athaclena]

Ranting, heh... Anyone else remember Anti-Social in its heyday?

Anyway. Back on topic. I'm sure this has been said before, but I haven't said it, so I'm going to.

The problem I mainly have with Americans, and this is not limited to the ones I've met here (actually, all the Americans I know are civilized human beings with no more foibles than any of us), is that they patronise a lot. "I love your accent! It's so cute!" "This town is really quainst!/smaller than the mall back home!" "I'm twelth generation Scottish/Irish, you know!"

Now, I realise that the US is one of the most powerful nations on the planet, and that is something to be proud of, yes. And I believe that the number of truly ignorant people in America is probably the same percentage as it is in Scotland, or the UK in general, or anywhere else in the world. But there are far more Americans than any other nationality who come over here (the Chinese are too poor and oppressed, and brain-washed by the Regime.) and so our opinions of Americans are much worse than they would otherwise be. The most damage to America's image is done by tourists, and not by George W. "I'm really a fascist" Bush. But we still want to go to America and worship the great god Capitalism (I still do. I liked California), and the idol Disney, and so on.

I've started to wonder, though, what's wrong with a country where the rich white minority all want to try to get back to their ethic roots, however long ago it was that they left whichever Old Country it was. This is another generalisation, yes, but it still bugs the shit out of me.

Plus they always say that we spell things wrong. Obviously, it being our language, we spell it wrong, duh...

And for William? I feel sorry for the poor boy. He has a tragic past, no chance of ever being left alone by the press or by most of the country, he can't choose his own future... Why should I discuss him? Apart from adding a bit of inconvenience to my life (Option One, grr), he's hardly touched my life at all. And he probably never will.

All the same I've heard some really juicy rumours. Which I'm not going to put on a board that any paparrazzo can access.

[hr]A dark mirror...
That was always the intention...

[Simpleton]

Rumour has it that a certain future monarch is partial to the occasional orange juice!

Anyone else with juicy gossip?

[Terri]

Sorry, I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes. I did not intend to imply that The Sinner was obsessed with the Prince, just that there seemed to be a lot of people who assumed that the only reason anyone wanted to attend this school was because of him. I found that insulting. The other posts by American females (including my own)all seemed to recieve numerous responses inquiring about their true intentions- not something I would like to encounter as a student at St. Andrews (keep in mind that I am very shy). In my references to the Prince not making comments, I never said that I blamed him...I would stay out of this mess too! Everyone should be respectful enough to leave him out of conversation referring to American women- even if it is just for the girls' sake. My desire was to place a post which I hoped would cause strong reactions (which this did) to show me that the majority of the students are aimable and not harshly judgemental toward American females like so many of the posts I read seemed to indicate. I would like to thank everyone who replied in order to prove the comments I made were only fallacies...I feel much better about the possibilities of attending St. Andrews. Sorry about the trickery on my part. The best way to get the truth is to remain objective. (And I am the Devil's advocate.)

[Abbey]

I don't even go to St Andrews (though I'm hoping to next year), but your opinions seem competely off base (and I'm American). I've only even read these boards for about 5 days, and out of the hundreds of posts on here, I've seen perhaps 3 pertaining to "him." Honestly, this thread seems to be the most William-related one I've come across. Also, any threads related to him do seem to only grudge the media, not him as a person. Everyone here seems quite respectful of his privacy. So if anyone is fueling any sort of "obsession," it seems to be you.

[Terri]

A lot of replies ragged on me about my statements referring to Prince William being a student. I realize and understand that he is not a main focus at your university, and for that I am glad. As someone who has grown up around fame and celebrity, I feel very strongly about allowing people to live their lives. I have no desire to single him out. I do however, realize that he was the most obvious figure to use as an example in my original post. That may have been wrong of me, but I wish to point out that it was wrong of the SELECT FEW who mentioned him REPEATEDLY in responses to other's questions regarding the university. It is those FEW who are causing sad misconceptions about a wonderful school. Again, if I have insulted anyone I am deeply sorry. My only wish was to ensure that I would not encounter persons who would negatively affect my education experience should I choose St. Andrews.

[Connecticut Yankee]

The atmosphere at St Andrews is what you make of it ( clichéd but true). It´s not as if there´s one dominant group so I´m sure you´ll enjoy yourself. So some folks here slag the Prince off, and some I imagine oogle and praise him as well. How is that going to affect you in your day to day life? Anti-American sentiment is not very noticeable at this uni. I´ve never experienced anything beyond a friendly slagging match and someone who disagreed with current American politics. You´d be just as likely to encounter Anti-Americanism at a uni in the US

[The_Farwall]

[s]Unregisted User Terri wrote on 07:59, 30th Aug 2002:
Everyone on these boards seems to be obsessed with the fact that he attends this school

[s]Unregisted User Terri wrote on 17:43, 30th Aug 2002:I did not intend to imply that The Sinner was obsessed with the Prince

Right. Now I see the difference, what a cunning ruse you played by straight out contradicting yourself and thereby fooling us all. You've really put us in our place haven't you.

[hr]
"As you pick up the toothbrush a tree outside the window collapses.
There is no causal relationship between these two events."

[Elizabeth]

As far as I can remember, the things mentioned on this board about William did not actually have to do with gossip or sightings or anything goofy like that. I think it's wonderful that people don't tell his business on this board for anyone to see. It's either due to no one actually seeing or hanging out with him, or a general respect for students' privacy on campus (and not just his, i might add).

I'm actually getting hounded by my fellow Americans about how distracted I'll be and how I've got to meet him or something when I come in the spring. They really know nothing about the uni but think that has to be the only reason I would choose to attend. Non-Americans just praise the university as a very good one, etc, although I did have a friend at Cambridge eyebrow me and say very casually "you know the prince goes there..."

I bet all I'll have to worry about in the spring is political slagging, not grief for why I decided to come here.

[Jennifer Mc]

Unfortunately most of us have no choice in learning "American English" instead of the "Queen's English." Yes, I do have a Scottish and English background, and fortunately for all of you who live in the UK, your ancestors didn't feel the need to leave. The UK is so much different from the US. Yes, you have lovely "quaint" towns. Your accents are beautiful. It makes us sound less intelligent than you. Sorry we say "school" and you say "university." It's the way we grew up, and we can't really control that. As in every country, we have been influenced by our society. So, please sir, give us Americans a chance... it's not our fault we are this way! :O)

[The Kaiser]

[s]The_Farwall wrote on 14:21, 30th Aug 2002:
...being criticised for being snobbish and decadent and we're all struggling to survive on student loans and overdrafts.

It is possible to be snobbish and decadent while simultaneously struggling to survive on student loans and overdrafts.

[The_Farwall]

[s]The Kaiser wrote on 14:43, 1st Sep 2002:

It is possible to be snobbish and decadent while simultaneously struggling to survive on student loans and overdrafts.


Do you have any particular point to make, or any real come back to mine, or did you really just feel it necessary to pick at my choice of grammar. Or are you really claiming to be dumb enough to have not gotten the point as was making?

"decadent:
adjective
Marked by or providing unrestrained gratification; self-indulgent."

Not really 'struggling' is it? More having complete disreguard for the state of your finances.

[hr]
"As you pick up the toothbrush a tree outside the window collapses.
There is no causal relationship between these two events."