Am I going to hell?

[Ellkie]

Don't do it, it's bad for your soul.

http://jesusisthelight.net/PROCRASTINATION.htm

[hr]

It's all GEEK

[The Yettoner]

Wrong! Not ALL Christians threaten people with eternal damnation. I'm a Christian and can do nothing but cringe when I hear "evangelists" tell people they're going to Hell. It annoys me just as much as it annoys other folk, because that's not what Christianity's all about.

Ultimately, it's about showing other people the love that Jesus shows us and that's not done by shoving useless fliers promising hellfire and damnation to anyone who doesn't convert on the spot.

Put up with them, grumble about them, but please don't think that's what Christianity's about.

*Edited for rubbish spelling.

[hr]

"Faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you do not see." - Hebrews 11:1

[angel_kohaku]

Read the Satanic Bible. We are all going to Hell! Yay![img]littleicons/laugh.gif[/img]

[hr]

I wanna be an anarchist, get pissed, destroy

[munchingfoo]

Quoting The Yettoner from 20:39, 2nd Mar 2006
Wrong! Not ALL Christians threaten people with eternal damnation. I'm a Christian and can do nothing but cringe when I hear "evangelists" tell people they're going to Hell. It annoys me just as much as it annoys other folk, because that's not what Christianity's all about.

Ultimately, it's about showing other people the love that Jesus shows us and that's not done by shoving useless fliers promising hellfire and damnation to anyone who doesn't convert on the spot.

Put up with them, grumble about them, but please don't think that's what Christianity's about.

*Edited for rubbish spelling.

So... Do you believe in Hell? If so, following the religion you lead, as set down by the bible, I am going there.

Even if you do not actively say it to my face, you must believe I am going there and as such infer that I am by your being religious and me not.

If you don't believe this then you are following a different version of what has been written down, which makes no sense what so ever.

Just out of interest, as one of the few athiest who have actually read both fully from cover to cover (something we are always told not to do of course), I always like to use the difference between the old and new testiments as a personal proof not to believe.

[hr]

Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!

[The Yettoner]

Well, my belief is that, as an atheist, should you die today you will indeed go to Hell, I can't deny that. Jesus died so that those who believe in Him, accept him for who he is and accept his forgiveness will be saved, i.e. their sins will be forgotten by God because Jesus took the punishment in our place, thus we get to go to Heaven.

However,I reckon you've probably got at least 50 more years left in you, so there's plenty of time yet for you to come to God and be saved should you indeed wish to do that, it's never too late and nothing you've done in the past can take away God's love. My reply was not that non-Christians don't go to Hell, it was that I don't go around threatening them with Hell as a way of trying to get them to convert, because that doesn't show the love that Jesus showed.

Why does having read the Old and New Testaments through cover to cover stop you believing?

[hr]

"Faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you do not see." - Hebrews 11:1

[novium]

just to object to that last comment-
I personally believe that it is ones intentions and deeds that matter, not which groups you indentify with. Your heart, not what membership list you are on. My ultimate belief is that God is just and God is loving.

thus, hypothetically speaking, how could God damn anyone who has lived their life like a saint because they officially ascribed to the wrong creed? Especially if preference would be shown to those who have not lived up to the ideals they profess, but that happen to be members of the right club. Absurdity. That is how human beings think. That is human 'justice', not divine justice.

[hr]

"those who wish to be feared must inevitably be afraid of those whom they intimidate"
"In anger nothing right or judicious can be done."

[Ellkie]

So Jews, who don't believe in Jesus yet still believe in the same God, are going to hell? Yet Jesus was a Jew.

The Old Testament is more fun.

[hr]

It's all GEEK

[DrAlex]

Quoting The Yettoner from 20:39, 2nd Mar 2006

Put up with them...

That is what Christianity is all about.

foo: I don't believe you're going to hell the same way I don't believe the universe was created in 6 days 6000 years ago.

Ellkie: strictly speaking, yes.

All the Christians I've met who follow the Bible to the 'T', turn out to be the least Christian people I know. They get too worried about who's in and who's out, so to speak, that they forget the real message. Unless I really have to, however, this is all I'll say on the matter. Religion is a personal thing, that doesn't have to be shared.

[hr]

http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37100343

[The chap]

How fucking dare you tell anybody they are going to hell. You Christian folk who believe that shit have your head so far up your own arses it makes me cross. (Boom! Boom!)

Seriously though, there's two nuns in the bath....

[The Yettoner]

According to the Bible if you've lived a perfect life you go to Heaven, the problem being that only one person has led a perfect life and that was Jesus, who was, you are correct, a Jew. The Bible does indeed say it's what's on your heart, but because we're human we still mess up and we still often have the wrong things on our heart. God damns no one, the Bible says God doesn't send people to Hell (admittedly I can't remember whereright now, but I'll find out) but that we condemn outselves. God offered us a lifeline in Jesus, thus rather than damn us he wants to save us.

Christians should try to live up to the ideals they profess, indeed. Many of them don't even try, and thus when asking for fogiveness they aren't sincere and, as the Bible again says, they won't be saved. You have to be truly sorry, it's not just a case of being "members of the right club". As for accepting Jesus, you wouldn't expect to be invited in for a cup of tea by someone who you reject, would you? Only Jesus can offer that forgiveness, and he only does so for those willing to accept him, because if you don't believe he died to save you than you can't believe you're forgiven.

DrAlex, I'm sorry to say that Christians, myself included, worry about being "in" and "out" and all the rest of it. That's part of being human and that's one of the reasons we need forgiveness.

The Chap: I didn't say anyone was going to Hell (note use of conditional in above post) and have indeed suggested that we shouldn't say that.

[hr]

"Faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you do not see." - Hebrews 11:1

[Ellkie]

Quoting The Chap from 12:15, 3rd Mar 2006
How fucking dare you tell anybody they are going to hell. You Christian folk who believe that shit have your head so far up your own arses it makes me cross. (Boom! Boom!)

Seriously though, there's two nuns in the bath....

You're being well too hash. You can't speak to someone like that. And you can't diss religion, the best you can do is to try to understand it and everything that come with it.

[hr]

It's all GEEK

[novium]

I strongly disagree. If I can imagine a human being having more mercy, that hardly says anything for that version of God does it?

If you're going to take that literal route, I'm going to put it this way- you can be a christian through your intentions & deeds if not in your beliefs.

Quoting The Yettoner from 16:15, 3rd Mar 2006
of being "members of the right club". As for accepting Jesus, you wouldn't expect to be invited in for a cup of tea by someone who you reject, would you? Only Jesus can offer that forgiveness, and he only does so for those willing to accept him, because if you don't believe he died to save you than you can't believe you're forgiven.

DrAlex, I'm sorry to say that Christians, myself included, worry about being "in" and "out" and all the rest of it. That's part of being human and that's one of the reasons we need forgiveness.

The Chap: I didn't say anyone was going to Hell (note use of conditional in above post) and have indeed suggested that we shouldn't say that.

[hr]

"Faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you do not see." - Hebrews 11:1

[hr]

"those who wish to be feared must inevitably be afraid of those whom they intimidate"
"In anger nothing right or judicious can be done."

[munchingfoo]

Quoting Ellkie from 16:41, 3rd Mar 2006

Quoting The Chap from 12:15, 3rd Mar 2006
How fucking dare you tell anybody they are going to hell. You Christian folk who believe that shit have your head so far up your own arses it makes me cross. (Boom! Boom!)

Seriously though, there's two nuns in the bath....

You're being well too hash. You can't speak to someone like that. And you can't diss religion, the best you can do is to try to understand it and everything that come with it.

HA HA HA HA.... Sorry.

I don't agree with what that guy said in general but if you think I "can't diss religion" you really do have your head up your arse. What on earth brings you to make such a comment?

[hr]

Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!

[Ellkie]

Well, don't you think you have to make a considerate view on something that cannot be fully proved and disproved? I mean, there is no conclusive proof about the existence of a god, or several or any at all, therefore to entirely negate a thought might seem, to some people, unsuccessful.
Philosophical theories are widely debated about but very rarely is one thrown out the window.
Of course some one can 'diss religion', it's their personal opinion. But to me, it seems a little ignorant.


[hr]

It's all GEEK

[thebrookster]

Having read this thread, I feel bound to ask the obvious question - What is A Christian, Is it what we believe or who we are?

I like to believe that I am a Christian, i.e. I believe in God, and that he comes to us. I try to help others, and I follow what I believe to be a fairly strict set of Morals. However, I have large reservations about the New Testament, and because of this one of my friends (who believes that they are Christian) informed me that I was not a Christian.

Just to keep the discussion going!!

[novium]

well, yes, an emphasis on the new testament is sort of important for christians... the new convenant and all that....

Quoting thebrookster from 21:55, 3rd Mar 2006
Having read this thread, I feel bound to ask the obvious question - What is A Christian, Is it what we believe or who we are?

I like to believe that I am a Christian, i.e. I believe in God, and that he comes to us. I try to help others, and I follow what I believe to be a fairly strict set of Morals. However, I have large reservations about the New Testament, and because of this one of my friends (who believes that they are Christian) informed me that I was not a Christian.

Just to keep the discussion going!!

[hr]

"those who wish to be feared must inevitably be afraid of those whom they intimidate"
"In anger nothing right or judicious can be done."

[thebrookster]

Is it? I always understood it to be that Christians believed that God comes to us, so that if we asked for help he gave it to us, whilst other religions believe that we have to lead a perfect life for God to help us, therefore believing in any part of the bible or not was not that important, so long that we believed in him.

[novium]

new intepretation to me. i've never heard that.

Quoting thebrookster from 02:56, 4th Mar 2006
Is it? I always understood it to be that Christians believed that God comes to us, so that if we asked for help he gave it to us, whilst other religions believe that we have to lead a perfect life for God to help us, therefore believing in any part of the bible or not was not that important, so long that we believed in him.

[hr]

"those who wish to be feared must inevitably be afraid of those whom they intimidate"
"In anger nothing right or judicious can be done."

[The Yettoner]

Novium: Jesus seems fairly just to me. If we reject Jesus than he can't forgive us. Take the prodigal son, for example. If he hadn't returned his father wouldn't be able to forgive him and give him a good party to celebrate because he wouldn't have been there. You can, as I've said, be saved by deeds and intentions if you live a perfect life, but no one can and thus we need Jesus. Indeed, CHRISTianity is, by definition, a belief in Christ, thus beliefs are fairly important. In fact, the first commandment, "You shall have no other gods before me" (Exodus 20:3), suggests belief is just as important as actions are.

Thebrookster: Christianity is what we believe and that should affect who we are, i.e. we want to please God in our actions, though don't always (or perhaps rarely) succeed. Believing in the New Testament is pretty important because that is God's new agreement with us that replaces the one he gave us in the Old Testament.
As to your subsequent questions, I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. God does come to us and doesn't necessitate that we lead a perfect life because, as I keep saying, he sent Jesus to take our place in dying the death we deserve, this event and resulting new agreement and instructions on how to live a try to live a "good" life being recorded in the New Testament, therefore it's pretty fundamental to Christianity.


[hr]

"Faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you do not see." - Hebrews 11:1

[novium]

People generally think in the patterns they were raised in. True or false.

Quoting The Yettoner from 09:17, 4th Mar 2006
Novium: Jesus seems fairly just to me. If we reject Jesus than he can't forgive us. Take the prodigal son, for example. If he hadn't returned his father wouldn't be able to forgive him and give him a good party to celebrate because he wouldn't have been there. You can, as I've said, be saved by deeds and intentions if you live a perfect life, but no one can and thus we need Jesus. Indeed, CHRISTianity is, by definition, a belief in Christ, thus beliefs are fairly important. In fact, the first commandment, "You shall have no other gods before me" (Exodus 20:3), suggests belief is just as important as actions are.

Thebrookster: Christianity is what we believe and that should affect who we are, i.e. we want to please God in our actions, though don't always (or perhaps rarely) succeed. Believing in the New Testament is pretty important because that is God's new agreement with us that replaces the one he gave us in the Old Testament.
As to your subsequent questions, I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. God does come to us and doesn't necessitate that we lead a perfect life because, as I keep saying, he sent Jesus to take our place in dying the death we deserve, this event and resulting new agreement and instructions on how to live a try to live a "good" life being recorded in the New Testament, therefore it's pretty fundamental to Christianity.


[hr]

"Faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you do not see." - Hebrews 11:1

[hr]

"those who wish to be feared must inevitably be afraid of those whom they intimidate"
"In anger nothing right or judicious can be done."