Reasons For Scottish Seccession

[Fraser Archibald Wallace]

Scottish Economy

The economy of Scotland is closely linked with the rest of Europe, and is essentially a mixed economy. Scotland has the third largest GDP per capita of any region of the United Kingdom after London and the South East of England.
The Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of Scotland is just over £78.5 billion ($150 billion) (2002) ,giving a per capita GDP of £15,523 ($30,269) (2002).
There is also a dynamic and fast growing electronics design and development industry, based around links between the universities and indigenous companies like Wolfson[1], 4i2i[2], Linn, Nallatech[3] and Axeon[4]. There is also a significant presence of global players like National Semiconductor and Motorola. Other major industries include banking and financial services, education, entertainment, biotechnology, transport equipment, oil and gas, whisky, and tourism.
Oil
Under the Scotland act 1998, section 126. 90% of the North Sea oil fields are under Scots Law jurisdiction.
North Sea Oil generates around £8 billion in tax each year for the UK government. Gordon Browns recent announcement that revenue has fallen by £4 billion is false, he just re-set tax to their original levels after hiking them to generate £13 billion in the previous budget. Recent evidence by Kemp and Stephen (1999) has tried to estimate hypothetical Scottish shares of North Sea Oil revenue by dividing the UK sector of the North Sea into separate Scottish and UK sectors using the international principle of equidistance as utilised under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) - such a convention is used in defining the maritime assets of newly formed states and resolving international maritime disputes. The study by Kemp & Stephen showed that hypothesised Scottish shares of North Sea oil revenue over the period 1970 to 1999, varied to as high as 98%[12] dependent upon the price of oil and offset against taxable profits and the costs of exploration and development
http://business.scotsman.com/topics.cfm ... =477822007
Murkens, Jones & Keating (2002) p189
Scotland Act 1998 Section 126 - Interpretation

The oil related industries are a major source of employment and income on these islands. It is estimated that the industry employs around 100,000 workers (or 6% of the working population) of Scotland [6].
Whilst in recent years, North Sea oil production has been in decline, it is estimated that there are reserves of two billion tonnes in the North Sea - as much as has been produced in the last 25 years, with most oil fields being expected to remain economically viable until at least 2020 [7]. Recently with the prevailing high oil price, there has been a resurgence in oil exploration, specifically in the North East Atlantic basin to the west of Shetland and the Outer Hebrides, in areas that were previously considered marginal and unprofitable

Energy

Scotland is endowed with some of the best energy resources in Europe, and is a net exporter of electricity, with a generating capacity of 10.1GW primarily from coal, oil, gas and nuclear generation [9]. With prevailing international concern over the use of fossil fuels in power generation, Scotland has been identified as having significant potential for the development of renewable energy sources, with abundant wave, tidal and wind power

Scotch Whisky
Is probably the best known of Scotland's manufactured exports contributing around £800 million to the Scottish economy, supporting 41,000 jobs as well as adding £2 billion to the balance of trade making it one of the UK’s top five manufacturing export earners[12]. The Whisky industry also generates a substantial income for the government with around £1.6bn raised in duty each year

Scots raise a glass to economy boosting industry

Electronics
45,000 people are employed by electronics and electronics-related firms, accounting for 12% of manufacturing output. Today, Scotland produces 28% of Europe’s PCs; more than seven per cent of the world’s PCs; and 29% of Europe’s notebooks.[14]


Top 10 export destinations, 2004
Export destination Value (£million)
USA
2,610
Netherlands
1,645
Germany
1,600
France
1,165
Spain
775
Republic of Ireland
700
Switzerland
585
Belgium
555
Italy
525
Singapore
465
Source: Scottish Executive Global Connections Survey 2005


Banking

Edinburgh is Europe's fifth largest financial centre[17],

The sector makes a significant contribution to the economy employing 5% of the Scottish workforce or 113,160 people and generating £5bn or 6% of Scotland's GDP The financial services industry in Scotland is also one of its fastest growing areas with a growth rate of over 35% over the period 2000 to 2005
Scottish Financial Enterprise Industry Overview

Tourism is responsible for sustaining 200,000 jobs mainly in the service sector, with tourist spending averaging at £4bn per year
Scottish Executive Tourism Statistics

Public Sector.

The public sector, in Scotland, has a significant impact upon the economy and comprises central government departments, local government, and public corporations. In quarter 3 of 2005, there were 577,300 people employed in the public sector, which accounts for 23.4% of employment in Scotland
Public Sector Employment in Scotland 2005 Scottish Executive


Other Economic Indicators
Total Population: 5,094,801 (2005 est)
Working Age Population: 2,175,386 (2005 est.)
GDP (£million): 74,058 (2002)
Manufacturing GVA (£million): 11,110 (2003)
Number of VAT registered companies: 126,025 (2003 est.)
Number of Large Companies (250+ employees) in Scotland: 2,240 (2004)
Employment Rate (% of adults of working age): 74.7 (2004)
Median Gross Weekly Earnings of full-time workers on adult rates (£): 392.70
Claimant Unemployment Rate (%): 3.5 (2004)
People of working age claiming key Social Security benefits (%): 16.7 (Feb. 2005)

^ Scottish Economic Statistics 2005 - Quick Facts Scottish Executive
Other reasons for seccesion:

Trident


Weapons of mass destruction are morally wrong.
Encourages proliferation
No-one wins in a mutually nuclear war
Provides no diplomatic pressure in modern context – see Iranian hostage crisis.
Makes Scotland a target for attack


1536 jobs are sustained by Trident in Scotland.
In addition Scotland’s share of the cost of renewing Trident is estimated to be £85 million per year for 15 years

Many of these jobs could be transferred to the renewables sector
Cancelling Trident will create more jobs and will help Scotland to play its part in tackling climate change.”
Said Alan Mackinnon, Chair Scottish CND
http://www.stuc.org.uk/press-releases/3 ... tland-jobs

Marginalisation of Scottish Interests:
Oil: Evidence unearthed in late 2005 under the Freedom of Information Act has shown significant UK government concerns over the rising tide of Scottish Nationalism during the early part of the 1970s and the consequences that this may have had upon ownership and control over the UK's North Sea resources. A report written by the Scottish Office economist Gavin McCrone for ministers[14] in the mid-1970s indicated that with ownership of North Sea oil, an independent Scotland would have "embarrassingly large tax surpluses"[15], that the economy of an independent Scotland, with control over the majority of UK North Sea oil revenue would have the one of the "hardest" currencies in Europe and that "for the first time since the Act Of Union was passed, it can now be credibly argued that Scotland's economic advantage lies in its repeal"[16]
1. BBC news online September 2005 Papers reveal oil fears over the SNP
2. ^ BBC News online October 2005 Secret oil finds dossier released

International Diplomacy:
Scotland would support peace keeping forces, but not engage in wars such as Iraq. Never popular in Scotland.

Also, not that while soldiers in UK forces –around 12% class themselves as Scottish, while around 18% of casualties are Scots. See Operation TELIC stats for last operation where all forces operating in a similar situation. Since then, it was the BLACK WATCH sent to the Triangle of Death, and this is because a scottish soldiers death means little to Labour as they consider their Scottish constituencies completely loyal, whereas in the South west they have to compete with the Tories- who also don’t care about Scotland as they get no votes up here.


Different Political Identity
Scotland is different to the UK politically. More left wing- only place in UK where it is possible to raise taxes without losing votes. Poll tax, recent inability of Labour to use the local income tax to knock down the Lib Dems and SNP.

The fact that Scottish Nationalism is still around, and at the moment so strong, is indicative of this.

Tax Revenue
Back to the Economy a little. Minus North Sea oil, Scotland raises 8.1% of the UK’s tax revenue.

That is: £36,439 billion.
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications ... 11084016/6
Its budget, from the London treasury annually is: £22,319 billion. (2005-06)
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/Spending_ ... chap22.cfm


If Scotland were independent, it would also have around 90% of the £8 billion tax revenue the UK government takes from OUR North Sea resources.

That is: another £7.2 billion.

Look at that figure. http://business.scotsman.com/topics.cfm ... =477822007
Murkens, Jones & Keating (2002) p189
Scotland Act 1998 Section 126 - Interpretation

Norway’s Oil Fund now stands at $210 billion.
Britain, around £1 in every £12 of government income comes from the oil and gas sector

RENEWABLE OPPERTUNITIES MISSED
The UK also has not saved money from its oil revenues to reinvest in other renewable energy supplies. The UK (not Scotland) is now a net importer of oil.
http://www.neweconomics.org/gen/hookedonoil_231006.aspx

EU membership-

Greenland 1980’s: Granted autonomy by Denmark, withdrew from the EC due to fishing disputes.
EU trying to get people in –Bulgaria, and if they can get in!



[hr]

Scotland shall be free

[Senethro]

Edit: Ok, it appears people actually want to dissect his shit so I'll remove this.

Also, crossposted from the other thread.



Quoting Fraser Archibald Wallace from 19:37, 16th Apr 2007
Also, not that while soldiers in UK forces –around 12% class themselves as Scottish, while around 18% of casualties are Scots. See Operation TELIC stats for last operation where all forces operating in a similar situation. Since then, it was the BLACK WATCH sent to the Triangle of Death, and this is because a scottish soldiers death means little to Labour as they consider their Scottish constituencies completely loyal, whereas in the South west they have to compete with the Tories- who also don’t care about Scotland as they get no votes up here.

waitaminit is this bit a conspiracy theory?

[Cain]

Both sides presented in this argument have their merits.

[hr]

I hold an element of surprise

[Steveo]

Also, not that while soldiers in UK forces –around 12% class themselves as Scottish, while around 18% of casualties are Scots. See Operation TELIC stats for last operation where all forces operating in a similar situation. Since then, it was the BLACK WATCH sent to the Triangle of Death, and this is because a scottish soldiers death means little to Labour as they consider their Scottish constituencies completely loyal, whereas in the South west they have to compete with the Tories- who also don’t care about Scotland as they get no votes up here.

That's one of the single most callous and vile pieces of cretinous, hatemongering propoganda I've ever had the misfortune to read.

You're not just cynical, you're deluded.

[hr]

Get off my internet.

[exnihilo]

Just ludicrous, you seriously think that the Prime Minister or someone in government instructed generals on how to conduct military operations with something along the lines of, "oh, and if anyone has to die, make sure its Scots, would you? That'll be less politically damaging to us."

You seem to have a low opinion of Scots, that you think we're all cretinous enough to walk blindly to our deaths for the sake of English votes and doltish enough to accept tax rises with equanimity and w`tch as yet more of our money is pissed away. You really are not helping your case, you foolish man and your fellow nationalists must be cringing.

It's also, if I'm not mistaken, now the third time you've cut and pasted this claptrap on these boards. There's a word for that, now what was it...

[Humphrey]

The economy of Scotland is closely linked with the rest of Europe, and is essentially a mixed economy. Scotland has the third largest GDP per capita of any region of the United Kingdom after London and the South East of England.

Actually it has the fourth highest after the east of England. As a native East Anglian I had to point that out

The public sector, in Scotland, has a significant impact upon the economy and comprises central government departments, local government, and public corporations. In quarter 3 of 2005, there were 577,300 people employed in the public sector, which accounts for 23.4% of employment in Scotland
Public Sector Employment in Scotland 2005 Scottish Executive

A large public sector is not a good thing for many reasons. While the public sector in Scotland accounts for a modest percentage of employment it constitutes an alarming percentage of GDP which is a sign of a basket case economy.

[hr]

http://www.livejournal.com/users/humphrey_clarke/

[Humphrey]

Total Population: 5,094,801 (2005 est)
Working Age Population: 2,175,386 (2005 est.)
GDP (£million): 74,058 (2002)

Population and demographics are important here. The following is a good summary of future trends.

'Since the census of 2001, the Scottish Executive and leading academics in Scotland, have expressed concern over the falling number of births in Scotland and the ageing and declining of the population, a process which has been taking place over recent decades. Scotland's population reached its peak in the mid-1970s, and has slowly declined since that time to its current total of 5.1m. The major reason is seen to be due to significant out-migration from Scotland - particularly to the rest of the United Kingdom - although recent years have seen that trend reversed with significant in-migration to Scotland from the rest of the United Kingdom [1]. Similarly, since 2004 there has been a large influx of arrivals from the new EU accession states such as Poland, Czech Republic, Lithuania and Latvia, contributing to the recent growth of the population.

Compounding the problem of a declining and ageing population, in Scotland is falling fertility and birth rates - a feature common to much of Europe. Scotland's population is also getting older - as the large quotient of individuals born in the post war period - 1950s and 1960s near retirement. A common fear amongst commentators is the strain this could pose to the nation's resources, with a smaller working population generating insufficient resources, to support a high number of retirees and dependents.'

Demograhpic decline = economic stagnation



[hr]

http://www.livejournal.com/users/humphrey_clarke/

[Senethro]

Quoting Humphrey from 20:46, 16th Apr 2007
Demograhpic decline = economic stagnation

Doesn't every developed country have this problem?

[Humphrey]

Quoting Senethro from 20:49, 16th Apr 2007

Quoting Humphrey from 20:46, 16th Apr 2007
Demograhpic decline = economic stagnation

Doesn't every developed country have this problem?

Yeah but there are varying degrees of the problem. For example compare the plight of Italy to the U.K.

[hr]

http://www.livejournal.com/users/humphrey_clarke/

[Senethro]

Quoting Humphrey from 21:00, 16th Apr 2007

Quoting Senethro from 20:49, 16th Apr 2007

Quoting Humphrey from 20:46, 16th Apr 2007
Demograhpic decline = economic stagnation

Doesn't every developed country have this problem?

Yeah but there are varying degrees of the problem. For example compare the plight of Italy to the U.K.

[hr]

http://www.livejournal.com/users/humphrey_clarke/

I've not heard any real solutions other than raising retirement age. That still won't stop old people from breaking the NHS.

Whats Japan doing?

[Cain]

Quoting Senethro from 21:07, 16th Apr 2007
I've not heard any real solutions other than raising retirement age. That still won't stop old people from breaking the NHS.

Whats Japan doing?

I'm not sure that tentacle rape is an appropriate response to Scotland's demographic problems.

[hr]

I hold an element of surprise

[Senethro]

xD

[Frank]

Quoting cain from 21:10, 16th Apr 2007

Quoting Senethro from 21:07, 16th Apr 2007
I've not heard any real solutions other than raising retirement age. That still won't stop old people from breaking the NHS.

Whats Japan doing?

I'm not sure that tentacle rape is an appropriate response to Scotland's demographic problems.

That'd be a very literal 'laughing out loud' response there. Shame I'm in a (sparsely) populated computer classroom. Enough of a lol to alarm the rest of the classroom? I'd suppose so...

[hr]

"There is only ever one truth. Things are always black or white, there's no such thing as a shade of grey. If you think that something is a shade of grey it simply means that you don't fully understand the situation. The truth is narrow and the path of the pursuit of truth is similarly narrow."

[Lid]

These threads are so funny on so many levels - not least because I would guess there are so few swing voters on The Sinner, it doesn't matter, oweing to how opinionated everybody is.

Pissing and wind spring to mind, Mr Wallace.

At least he's not out canvassing for the SNP and only spreading his (I was going to say Anti-Union) Anti-English propaganda where nobody cares - The Sinner - and I wouldn't have it any other way.

[hr]

Mathematical Anti Telharsic Harfatum Septomin

[Senethro]

The Sinner: Where Nobody Cares!

[munchingfoo]

The Black Watch are geneally respected as one of the more capable and courageous of the British Regiments. This tends to be why they are sent into more volitile and dangerous locations in a battle field/piece keeping situation. This also would appear to be the reason why slightly more scots died. I think thats something to be proud of, not angry about.

[hr]

Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!

[god_hand]

Quoting Senethro from 23:33, 16th Apr 2007
The Sinner: Where Nobody Cares!

Which is a shame. Because apart from the things about the army (Though as a result of commitments oversees the Black Watch have been/are being, re-deployed to Afghanistan, in direct contravention of army deployment cycles), he’s presenting a coherent enough argument. Whereas you’re counterpoising fuck-all!

Y’know, I’m tempted to vote SNP on the basis that the opposition seem unable to do anything more complex than misrepresent the party as a bunch of rabid fascists marching around in jack-brogues, brown kilts and saltier arm-bands. Not once does anyone offer criticism of policy. Alas, my constituency is in Wales; where we don’t have any oil-fields. So I won’t be voting for Plaid.

[Lid]

Au contraire, god_hand, we've just got tired of doing so, see for reference the 9-page thread just last week.

[hr]

Mathematical Anti Telharsic Harfatum Septomin

[Humphrey]

he’s presenting a coherent enough argument. Whereas you’re counterpoising fuck-all!

Does copying and pasting the entire 'Economy of Scotland' article from wikipedia consitute a coherant arguement?. Most of it its a statment of fact, i.e Scotland has an economy. Well done. California has something like the fifth largest economy in the world but this fact alone doesnt mean that it should secede and declare independence. Of course that doesnt automatically follow that a good argument couldnt be made but it hasn't been done here.

[hr]

http://www.livejournal.com/users/humphrey_clarke/

[thePontificator]

Quoting god_hand from 09:08, 17th Apr 2007

Quoting Senethro from 23:33, 16th Apr 2007
The Sinner: Where Nobody Cares!

he’s presenting a coherent enough argument. Whereas you’re counterpoising fuck-all!

In another thread he said he would be tempted to become a suicide bomber in the nationalist cause.

If you are considering voting SNP, ignore everything that FAW has typed. It'll give you a much better opinion of them.