20 point scale in %

[HarryP]

Does anybody know/have a link for transfering %s ---> 20 point scale?

Is it the same across all subjects or does it vary?

[munchingfoo]

No department should really have a direct % -> 20 scale algorithm. The 20 point scale is a non linear textual description scale. You may be able to find approximate % values (like what you need to get a 5, and this will vary from subject to subject, adn from year to year.) in your course handbook.

I tried to find the grade descriptors for my subject, but I couldn't, which is worrying.

Here's the art history one's.

16.5-20.0 (the pass standard expected for a First Class Honours Degree)
Work in this category would be clearly distinguished. It would:
Demonstrate a high level of competence throughout
Demonstrate independence of thought, insight, and/or critical thinking
Show an excellent understanding of the topic
Show evidence of wide reading and research
Include highly relevant ideas
Answer the question clearly and fully
Structure the essay and argument/s very well
Use highly relevant and detailed examples/illustrations (written and/or visual)
13.5-16.4 (the pass standard expected for an Upper Second Honours Degree)
Work in this category would:
Demonstrate a basic to high level of competence throughout
Demonstrate a thorough understanding of the topic
Show frequent evidence of relevant reading and research
Include relevant ideas
Answer the question clearly and fully, with only occasional or minor failures of comprehension or
knowledge
Structure the essay and argument/s competently, with only occasional or minor failures of
argument
Use relevant examples/illustrations (written and/or visual)
10.5-13.4 (the pass standard expected for a Lower Second Class Honours Degree)
Work in this category would:
Demonstrate a basic level of competence throughout
Show a basic to good understanding of the topic
Show evidence of reading of relevant texts
Include most of the relevant ideas
Be of clear structure and argument
Use examples/illustrations (written and/or visual)
Answer the question, though overall the work may show failures of comprehension, organisation,
evidence, argument, relevance or poor literacy (syntax and spelling)
7.5-10.4 (of the pass standard expected for a Third Class Honours Degree)
Work in this category would:
Show a basic understanding of the topic
Show evidence of reading
Include basic relevant ideas
Attempt to answer the question
However, there may be substantial flaws in:
Comprehension of the question
Structure and organisation of the argument
Development of the argument
The relevance or use of examples/illustrations (written and/or visual)
14
5.0-7.4 (of a pass standard that receives credit for a General Degree)
Work in this category would:
Positively:
Show a little understanding of the topic
Show modest evidence of reading
Negatively:
Include few relevant ideas
Fail to answer the question (sometimes answer a completely different
question)
Structure the argument badly
Fail to use relevant examples/illustrations
Demonstrate undue dependence upon secondary authorities
0.0-4.9 (these are fail marks not worthy of credit)
Work in this grade category would:
Show little or no understanding of the topic
Show very little evidence of reading and research
Include very few relevant ideas
Fail to answer the question or answer a different question
Fail to structure the argument
Fail to use relevant examples/illustrations
Be substantially derivative or unduly dependent upon secondary authorities without
acknowledgement
Be awarded to blank or almost blank examination scripts



I know this isn't much use if you are in Sciences, but I do computing and we use this stupid scale, along with the descriptors, aswell!

[hr]

“ When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading”

[HarryP]

Ok thank you... I have seen things like that before and that obviously varies from subject to subject.

I thought that I had seen/heard somewhere that 5 = 50% or something, and an essay which was 67% was a 16.... so was wondering how tight it was. - eg whether it would need to be 100% to be a 20, or whether 95%etc is sufficient.

Doesn't really matter at the moment, just putting off revision!!

[orudge]

As already stated, the grading system can be different even between different modules. As an example, the mark-to-grade mapping table for the 2nd year CS modules last semester is here:

http://www.owenrudge.net/various/grades.html

whereas last year in a third year module, the mapping as more like:

29.5% --> 5
39.5% --> 7.5
46.0% --> 10.5
58.0% --> 13.5
68.0% --> 16.5
85.0% --> 20

Grade descriptors for comp sci (they were in the general handbook, foo - although, admittedly, these are for coursework more than exams, I guess):

• Grade 0: nothing submitted

• Grade 1‐2 (severe fail): almost no evidence of any attempt to complete the piece of work.

• Grade 3‐4 (fail): no evidence of any serious attempt to complete work. No substantial relevant code or other deliverable. No report showing any grasp of the issues.

• Grade 5‐7 (bare pass): Evidence of a serious attempt at the work, which ran into major problems. Typically might include code representing a significant part of a solution, but which does not compile or does not run, together with a report describing the problems and the attempts made at a solution. Might also include working code for part of the problem, but no report, or similar.

• Grade 8‐10 (pass): Evidence of a reasonable attempt addressing some requirements. For coding assignments, code achieves some of the required functionality and is adequately documented/reported or a model captures some elements of what is to be modelled. Might also include better code and a weaker report or vice versa. Code style starts to become important at the top end of this range.

• Grade 11‐13 (pass): Evidence of a competent attempt addressing most requirements. For coding assignments, code achieves most of the required functionality and is of acceptable standard. Report describes what was done clearly and in proper style or model captures main features of what is to be modelled. Might cover code, which is fully functional but poor in terms of style, readability and robustness, when the report adds little or no value to the code.

• Grade 14‐16 (merit): Evidence of a good attempt completing nearly all requirements successfully. For coding assignments, code or model should achieve almost all required functionality and be clear and well‐structured. Report should be clear and show a proper level of understanding.

• Grade 17‐18 (first rank): Evidence of an excellent attempt with no significant defects. For coding assignments, code or model achieves full functionality required, including any extension elements, and is well‐designed and clear in good style. Report shows real insight into the subject matter, and is clear, well written and well presented.

• Grade 19‐20 (exceptional): Evidence of exceptional achievement. For coding assignments, code or model achieves all specified functionality, and may contribute some appropriate extra features. Design and implementation show unusual clarity and planning, producing robust and effective software or an exceptionally expressive model. Report is very well written and presented, showing evidence of background reading, a full knowledge of the subject and insight into the problem.

So that's a rough guideline, but it does vary between subjects, modules and years.

[hr]

http://www.owenrudge.net/
http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37103734

[777]

If you mean for exams then the School of Classics weighs a 5 as 25%; each mark being made up of 2 points and each point being worth 2.5%.

[hr]


You're not pinning it on me - I didn't did it!

[creepy old man]

There's a link on the uni website to a document that shows how to convert the St Andrews marking scale to the American and Canadian ones. That could help if you're assuming that the A range is 90-100%, B is 80-90%, etc.

[creepy old man]

It's on this page, under 'Assessment and Award,' the link saying 'Comparable Grading Sheet 2007'

http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/students/academic/

I don't think work needs to be absolutely perfect to get a 20, although it would depend on the subject. A friend of mine recently got a 20 on an essay and the marker did provide some minor criticism and suggestions despite awarding a 'perfect' mark.

[AliceChalliner]

http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/media/Gradingsheet.pdf

[HarryP]

Quoting AliceChalliner from 23:54, 20th May 2008
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/media/Gradingsheet.pdf

This is what I was after... thanks

A "St Andrews 50%" (=American 70%??) = 11
A "St Andrews 80%" (=American 95%??) = 20

And inbetween its 2-3%/mark

[Freaker]

Quoting HarryP from 17:32, 21st May 2008

Quoting AliceChalliner from 23:54, 20th May 2008
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/media/Gradingsheet.pdf

This is what I was after... thanks

A "St Andrews 50%" (=American 70%??) = 11
A "St Andrews 80%" (=American 95%??) = 20

And inbetween its 2-3%/mark

Yes, that wonderful sheet of paper. Which will presumably be considered when my grades are transferred back from my year abroad at the University of Virginia to St Andrews. I love the fact that an 'A' can get you at most 18 points, even if your professor thinks you did some really outstanding work and doesn't give A+ out of principle (and of course many US universities don't use a 4.33, but only 4.00 point scale anyways.) I do hope there are loopholes.

Maybe I am just freaked out because I did really well in graduate level courses I took in my first semester abroad and am worried that won't be credited - and that my grade will be further pulled down by me doing only alright in my undergrad-level courses last semester and getting shit grades for that in St Andrews.

In any case, fucking pretentious St Andrews for assuming a US 95% is only 80% in St Andrews.

Rant over.

[hr]

I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once.

[Grant]

Quoting Freaker from 19:22, 21st May 2008
In any case, fucking pretentious St Andrews for assuming a US 95% is only 80% in St Andrews.

Haha, seems spot on to me considering some of the stuff ive heard!

[n01]

i suppose you have to take into consideration that the style of marking is totally different and probably can't be converted entirely accurately.

i wonder what the conversions are based on?

A 95% in the States is equivalent to a 4.0, which is a first. It is much harder to achieve a 100% here, and the marking scheme is just relative.

the work is harder to ace and is scaled accordingly. i reckon it's fairly accurate.

[CaptainAmerica]

Re Grant:

"Haha, seems spot on to me considering some of the stuff ive heard! "

What exactly have you heard?

The fact that America has by far the best university system in the world?

The fact that the top 25 American universities (including the aforementioned Virginia) are easily better than any university in the UK, aside from Oxford and Cambridge?

Oh yea sorry, I forgot- Americans are all stupid.

[creepy old man]

No one said Americans are stupid, just that the marking system is a bit friendlier and doesn't mesh very well with the one St Andrews has. In America, if you get an essay back with "excellent work" written on it, it's probably going to be an A or even A+ (94-100). Here it's more likely to be a 15-17 (whatever percentage that is, lower than 94-100) Or at least that's my experience.

[maenad]

When enquiring about study abroad options at Edinburgh uni I was pretty much told by the academics there that none of the American programmes were up to scratch, and a friend being interviewed for a Masters at Cambridge was warned not to fall into "American dilettantism". If this is what our academics are saying, it's no wonder the American education system has a bad rep here.

[hr]

Tommy can you hear me?

[Captain Britain]

Quoting CaptainAmerica from 03:26, 23rd May 2008
Re Grant:

"Haha, seems spot on to me considering some of the stuff ive heard! "

What exactly have you heard?

The fact that America has by far the best university system in the world?

The fact that the top 25 American universities (including the aforementioned Virginia) are easily better than any university in the UK, aside from Oxford and Cambridge?

Oh yea sorry, I forgot- Americans are all stupid.

I'm pretty sure that America having "by far the best university system in the world" is not a fact. If nothing else, 'best' is a wildly ill-defined word here.

What makes a university good? Is it producing and housing good academics or producing excellent professionals?

The US undergrad scene tends to give, in maths, if nothing else, a lot less material than many UK places. Additionally, of course, if you're interested in studying one thing, and have a single academic subject you can do well in, you're much more likely to do well in the UK than in US.

Also, I question your claim that the top 25 American unis are easily better than any non-Oxbridge uni -- Imperial College and UCL could certainly give plenty of them a run for their money, in most rankings published.

I'm not saying American places are worse than UK, just that you're making rather bold claims...

[Freaker]

A discussion!

The USA have some excellent universities, and I feel fortunate to have been able to attend an excellent institution there for a year. I felt that for my subjects (Philosophy, International Relations) the education I got in Virginia was at least up to scratch to what I got in St Andrews in my first two years, and in parts much better. Much of that comes from more personal time with professors who are more available, small groups and other things I maybe would also have had in third-year St Andrews. But there is also a lot more choice of courses, more flexibility in choosing courses and shaping a degree, and some courses are taught with much smaller groups (where I presume St Andrews would cancel the course for lack of interest.) The University of Virginia Endowment is 2 billion dollar - St Andrews Endowment is somewhere around 50 million pounds?

The two systems are completely different. Only two of eleven non-language essays I wrote the two semeseters were research papers, all others were opinion/analysis based (it probably would have been the other way around in St Andrews, based on my first two years.) You are required to do a lot more work/reading/research independently in St Andrews, and spend a lot less time in class. You follow much more narrow instructions in the USA, and are graded more for a good "completion" of a given assignment or task rather than the quality of your independent work or initiative on it.

I am not sure which university I would prefer if I was given the choice between the two (all financial factors aside.) I do believe them to be relatively equal, at least for my subjects. The Times Higher Education World Ranking listed St Andrews somewhere in the 70s, and Virginia in the 120s. But St Andrews branding all US universities as marking less harshly than itself I find to be just as false a generalisation as saying that US universities are better/worse than their UK counterparts.

[hr]

I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once.