Did anyone see what happened in the Union last night?

[ninman]

Hey all, was anybody in the union last night at around 1 in the morning? I was playing pool so I didn't see what happened, but when me and my mates were leaving we saw this guy getting dragged out of the union by the three bouncers. He then started kicking the door repeatedly and had a fight with the bouncers in the car park afterwards.

I didn't see everything that happened because we left and went to the all night garage, but I was back about 20 minutes later, and I saw him in the back of a police car. Does anyone know what started it all? Was he fighting with somebody in the main bar area? If you didn't see it then you missed something quite funny I promise.

Anyway could somebody fill me in on what happened? Cheers.

[ninman]

bump

[kaleidoscope_eyes]

yes i also so a scuffle but didnt know what it was about.... saw some police afterwards aswell!



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[ninman]

[s]kaleidoscope_eyes wrote on 15:40, 9th Apr 2005:
yes i also so a scuffle but didnt know what it was about.... saw some police afterwards aswell!



[hr]
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What did you think of the way the bouncers handled it? Personally I thought that they were behaving like thugs, not security guards. They shouldn't have been hitting the guy back but attempting to restrain him and calm him down. They don't appear to have had any training to do the job that they do.

I thought they way they chucked him out was a little bit silly as well. I dunno maybe they asked him to leave first and then dragged or maybe they just do that automatically if there is any fighting going on in the Union. But I thought it was a little strange the way that they handled it.

[morn_69]

I was working last night, in offsales, and from what I heard is that the security guards ended up with a broken nose. They didnt act like thugs, they dealt with the problem professionally. why is it that when a fight is broken up by S3, it is them who always get blame?? When I am glass collecting and something like that happens, I can say that they act with a professional attitude and that I for one (along with the other staff) are glad to have them there!

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[ninman]

[s]morn_69 wrote on 16:09, 9th Apr 2005:
I was working last night, in offsales, and from what I heard is that the security guards ended up with a broken nose. They didnt act like thugs, they dealt with the problem professionally. why is it that when a fight is broken up by S3, it is them who always get blame?? When I am glass collecting and something like that happens, I can say that they act with a professional attitude and that I for one (along with the other staff) are glad to have them there!

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I don't know what was happening inside. But I know what happened outside. When he was attacking them, instead of restraining him, they just brawling with him and hitting him themselves. Security Guards are not supposed to do that, they are meant to restrain an individual and try to calm him down, I also heard one of them tell him to "fuck off", which doesn't sound too proffessional to me. Me and my friends all agreed that they way they handled it is not the way that it should have been handled.

Had it been me I wouldn't have hit him back, I would have attempted to calm him down first and then if he continued restrained him until the police arrived. They didn't look like they had any kind of training at all in handling situations like that. That's just what I observed outside, like I said I didn't see what happened inside.

[annonymous1]

Can anyone tell me the rules on how bouncers are allowed to present themselves?

On the other hand, there are some very polite, well rounded and quite nice bouncers who are very easy to talk to and quite approachable. Unfortunately, these types of bouncer are few and far between.

I saw on anopther thread the post about the 'small yellow haired snidy bastard'.

Whats that all about?

[munchingfoo]

Editted, @ Ninman

You are probably absolutely correct. I was in a good situation when I worked there in that my personal training out with work was mostly about how to take people down and restrain them. Some people aren't so lucky to have this training.

You have to remember that these guys get payed just over minimum wage. If you want professional bouncers then the union will have to be charged more money and your drinks prices will go up. I don't think this is necessary though.

It can be a very stressful enviroment and keeping a cool calculating head is difficult at times. Remember that in city night clubs you'll be lucky to get away without a broken bone if you go picking a fight with the bouncers. They are after all only people, and people have breaking points. These breaking points can be receded with costly training but they can never be removed.

The union is not a violent place and the blame culture that surrounds S3 is completely ignorant.

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[quarterstaff]

ninman,

soft men sleep well at night because rough men guard the door.

of course people swear when they are fighting. in such a line of work, being professional is about getting the job done.

which they did, by all accounts.

[christian_harris]

[s]You have to remember that these guys get payed just over minimum wage. If you want professional bouncers then the union will have to be charged more money and your drinks prices will go up.[/s]


I think you'll find that the Union is probably already paying over the odds for the service that they receive.

Also, regardless of how much anyone is paid, they should still act professionally at all times when wearing the uniform of the company that they work for.

[s]It can be a very stressful enviroment and keeping a cool calculating head is difficult at times. Remember that in city night clubs you'll be lucky to get away without a broken bone if you go picking a fight with the bouncers. They are after all only people, and people have breaking points. These breaking points can be receded with costly training but they can never be removed.
[/s]


Disagreed. You are being paid to keep your cool and sort out problems in a courteous and professional manner.

If someone punches you when you are working on the door, then you just have to take it and restrain that person until the police arrive. Under no circumstances should you ever strike anyone back - the term used in the business for what you are allowed to do is 'reasonable force'.

I can't comment on an event that I did not witness myself, however IF the doorstaff were punching this bloke as has been reported here then if I were him I'd round up some witnesses and charge them all with Assault (level of which depending on any injuries suffered).

Regardless of what this guy did, there is no excuse for a group of sober, and probably much larger blokes, beating him up when they are supposed to be responsably policing the premises.

Once again, I was not there and did not see this, I am going on what has been said here.


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[flarewearer]

so what happened anyway? I heard off a friend who works in the union in the mornings that the security did indeed end up with a broken nose. Did nobody see?

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[Mr_Big_Dave]

a) the law is based on reason... can a single punch thrown in self defence not fall under the category 'reasonable force'?!

b) usually it is illegal to hold someone until the police arrive

c) nobody was beaten up

d) the guy was bigger than the doorstaff

I would like to add that I would agree with Chris in that 9 times out of 10 when you are punched working on the door, restraining rather than punching is the correct course of action.

If you leave the bubble that is st andrews (e.g. Dundee) and you hit a doorman (Bouncer) the chances are you'll (WRONGLY) end up in hospital (ninewells).

S3 get a lot of stick- especially for work they do at the union, but they aren't the thugs they are made out to be.
The vast majority of the guys are extremely approachable (especially if you have milkchocolate buttons) Have a chat with the guys on the door if you have any queries, and if they don't answer you questions suitably, ask to chat to their supervisor, or one of the union managers.

*yes, the broken nose is indeed true

[ninman]

[s]Mr_Big_Dave wrote on 12:20, 10th Apr 2005:
a) the law is based on reason... can a single punch thrown in self defence not fall under the category 'reasonable force'?!

b) usually it is illegal to hold someone until the police arrive

c) nobody was beaten up

d) the guy was bigger than the doorstaff

I would like to add that I would agree with Chris in that 9 times out of 10 when you are punched working on the door, restraining rather than punching is the correct course of action.

If you leave the bubble that is st andrews (e.g. Dundee) and you hit a doorman (Bouncer) the chances are you'll (WRONGLY) end up in hospital (ninewells).

S3 get a lot of stick- especially for work they do at the union, but they aren't the thugs they are made out to be.
The vast majority of the guys are extremely approachable (especially if you have milkchocolate buttons) Have a chat with the guys on the door if you have any queries, and if they don't answer you questions suitably, ask to chat to their supervisor, or one of the union managers.

*yes, the broken nose is indeed true


So what happened exactly then?

[Mr_Big_Dave]

Sorry, don't really think I should be going into it on her mate.

[White Knight]

I must admit the fuss that is made about the doorstaff in general at st-a's is ridiculous. Ive worked for three years in main high street pubs (never in st-a's thou) and I can tell you St-A's is vy calm, we are all lucky and should not complain, I have seen some bouncers punch out a guys teeth yet others be hit four times in the face and still not touch the person.

It is a very difficult job they do and personally i dont care what they do, they are sober, if your fucking around you know your doing it. They dont just go in fists blazing, you get warned you play by the rules otherwise things get interesting.

From a relaxing and working their i dont care, just get rid of dickheads.

[Paranoid]

Story I heard from my mates who were leaving the Union as this was going on was that the drunk was taken outside after he was kicking at doors or something, but then hurled abuse at the bouncers and tried to run away, to which the bouncers took him down with a kick to the leg...

I find that hard to believe, but I trust my friends judgement and he has no reason to lie...

[ninman]

[s]Paranoid wrote on 15:17, 10th Apr 2005:
Story I heard from my mates who were leaving the Union as this was going on was that the drunk was taken outside after he was kicking at doors or something, but then hurled abuse at the bouncers and tried to run away, to which the bouncers took him down with a kick to the leg...

I find that hard to believe, but I trust my friends judgement and he has no reason to lie...


They didn't kick him down, he tripped up and he kept saying "you're being really nasty to me!" All I want to know is if anyone knows what the hell was going on.

[rob 'f*ck off' wine boy]

He was drunk, they were chucking him out, he got a bit lairy. I don't think it's any more interesting than that.

[Guest]

Most of them are a disgrace. They show no respect whatsoever. They should be told to remember that the people in the union are the members of the club and not random punters.

Plus, off duty ones shouldn't be allowed to drink in the union.

[Guest]

Why don't we just accept that there are a number of student's who, for one reason or another feel a certain amount of disdain for a number of the bouncers.

Certainly, i think that they would not feel as such without good reason. It's hardly rational to think that they would feel this way for no reason.

I for one have experienced at first hand the sheer rudeness and intimidation of the small fat blonde haired one:

I was sat quite unprovocatively when he and about three others came up behind me and sttod very close demanding that we drink our drinks right then and there and leave. The time was 1.05 and hardly anyone had started to move. He remained there for the next ten minutes.

I will not complain in person as the way he made me feel so bad, I feel as though he may victimise me further.

I am genuinely scared of him and don't wish to rile him, but I really should say something as he is not the kind of person, I feel, that should be in the union - at any time.