The union in general

[Al]

Reading between the lines, I think grandpa's real problem with the SRC is that he *did* present his "ideas" to that body and they rejected them.

[the Empress]

Quoting Grandpa from 00:01, 28th Nov 2005

Quoting the Empress from 22:33, 26th Nov 2005

You attended what, 3 SRC meetings last academic year? You antagonised Ralph Covino and a lot of other people; you asked one girl (highly inappropriately) if she had any other talents than modelling Ann Summers wear! How can you be suprised no one's really interested, your presence was hardly productive . . . Plus, Alex Yabroff and Ralph Covino were very effective Chairs last year, so I don't quite see why you needed to 'offer your services' as Chair.

Yes, I attended 3 meetings in which, what, exactly went on? What was achieved and what progress was made where?


And can you tell me what use an Anne Summer Party is to representation?

What is this, some sort of sex shop for wanna be politicians.

Bloody hell - no wonder no-one gets anything done, you're all obsessed with your loins!
(actually, I think I remeber the party mentioned out of context, which is enough reason for me to get confused over it...Like I said before, if you can provide a valid reason that sex toys/clothes and other accessories are for the general benefit of ALL students, then I shall stop going on about it, but if the mention of sex toys in an SRC meeting cannot be justified, then I have all the more reason to think what I think.

[hr]

Every time you post it's like someone's dragging their nails down a blackboard. The girl in question was going to a beach party or something. You just invented sex toy talk yourself [I mentioned the Ann Summer thing because that's what you actually said.] And if you went to the meetings last year (and read the minutes for them) then you'd know what went on. I believe there were carve-ups (which you tried to get on, but erm, didn't).

I'm not on the SRC/SSC, don't know any of them personally, so I'm a pretty impartial observor. And I wouldn't comment on here, but you talk such rubbish!

[hr]

I wish I had a river to skate away on

[Grandpa]

Quoting exnihilo from 17:21, 28th Nov 2005
You know that you don't actually have to be on SRC to attend meetings and be heard, right?

If you have concrete proposals for the Association, produce papers and submit them. I'm sure the SRC will be happy to discuss and to implement them if they're meritorious.

Or you could snipe on here.

Come on, Exnihilo, you know I love a good 'snipe' as you put it - a 'jibe', I'd like to say!

Especially when there is something inherently wrong with a system such as the one we have here.

[hr]

[s]Cogitationis poenam nemo meretur, facias ipse quod faciamus suades - pax vobiscum.[/s]

[Grandpa]

Quoting munchingfoo from 00:52, 28th Nov 2005
That is a rather weak implication. Not every an summers party has sex toys.

[hr]

I'd like to change the world but they won't give me the source code.

It's actually rather a strong one when you walk into/by one of the shops and notice the style of marketting....

or have you too not been paying attention.

Please, I know I seem arrogant, but what I say is not unfounded

[hr]

[s]Cogitationis poenam nemo meretur, facias ipse quod faciamus suades - pax vobiscum.[/s]

[Grandpa]

Quoting Al from 17:41, 28th Nov 2005
Reading between the lines, I think grandpa's real problem with the SRC is that he *did* present his "ideas" to that body and they rejected them.

No, you are entirely wrong. That would not have been, in my mind, the correct thing to do.

The system as it is, or should I say the people that are there right now, are not wanting to change as they see nothing wrong with it. Fine - but if you ask, say, ten students (at random) if they know exactly what does go on at src meetings, and if they know what the src has achieved, you will not find a majority who actually know.

In my mind thereis a duty of the src (thus the union, thus those who are employed in a full-time nature) to let people know what is in fact happening. How, exactly, is not for me to suggest. It should be damned obvious

[hr]

[s]Cogitationis poenam nemo meretur, facias ipse quod faciamus suades - pax vobiscum.[/s]

[Grandpa]

Quoting the Empress from 19:52, 28th Nov 2005

Every time you post it's like someone's dragging their nails down a blackboard. The girl in question was going to a beach party or something. You just invented sex toy talk yourself [I mentioned the Ann Summer thing because that's what you actually said.] And if you went to the meetings last year (and read the minutes for them) then you'd know what went on. I believe there were carve-ups (which you tried to get on, but erm, didn't).

I'm not on the SRC/SSC, don't know any of them personally, so I'm a pretty impartial observor. And I wouldn't comment on here, but you talk such rubbish!

I find it hard to know how I can make a sound when posting on a silent webpage (?? Answers on a postcard please to lost in webspace, the union src sitter in, lostland, Thanks). Your choice of metaphor is entirely self protecting and does nothing for the situation at hand.

So, may I ask what on earth was anyone talking about going to an ann summers party at a meeting that is meant to be about representation?

How on earth can you sit there and defend someone who was blatantly off-topic (whatever it was, it was NOT about representation)?

How can you then jibe at me for saying what I have said? This is exactly the sort of thing I am trying to point at. Instead of sitting and talking about what issues students feel are relevant (has anyone found out what is relevant from their respective represented groups? Has anyone been and asked what people think? WHAT ARE PEOPLE DOING ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE WANT TO HAPPEN?

I can guess.

Sitting and talking about ann summers parties. Either that or they are sitting and suggesting things that they themselves have thought of doing due to not having the initiative to go out and find out what people want.

[hr]

[s]Cogitationis poenam nemo meretur, facias ipse quod faciamus suades - pax vobiscum.[/s]

p.s. p[lease try to make your editing a bit better formatted - if you are going to use this website, please learn how to. it will make other peoples' lives easier.

[exnihilo]

You'll excuse my snort of derision at this point.

Of course, I don't mean to be derisive, it's just my way.

[hr]

Don't feel bad about yourself; every ladder needs a bottom rung.

[Al]

Grandpa, grandpa, grandpa.... I really think you have got the wrong end of the stick about the SRC. Its primary remit is - or certainly was - not to be "representational" but "representative". It exists to represent student opinion to the university authorities. In order to represent as wide a cross-section of student opinion it follows that the SRC should contain as wide a cross-section of student opinion as possible. It should not merely be a collection of desperately ridiculous posts. Nor should it go down the road of complete lack of accountability as was recently proposed. Bring back the hall reps, Crichton-Montrose reps, convenors, properly constituted year and constituency reps. If there is a need for the various trivial reps, let them sit on the relevant committees.

[Grandpa]

Al, you are a bloody genious!

This is exactly what I've been waiting to hear...

Representative - yes, I apologose for my incorrect use of language.

Anyhow, representative it is meant to be, and NOT ONCE have I, as a member of I don't know how many different student 'categories' (for want of a better word) have I been asked my opinion on any matter whatsoever, in my capacity as first and foremost a student (as opposed to a memeber of this or that committee).

This is in the period of almost 18 months of being here.

Thus, I conceed that the src is non-effective.

Yes, bring back the reps (infact, I think they never did go away - but I may be wrong).
[hr]

[s]Cogitationis poenam nemo meretur, facias ipse quod faciamus suades - pax vobiscum.[/s]

[Grandpa]

Quoting exnihilo from 22:45, 28th Nov 2005
You'll excuse my snort of derision at this point.

Of course, I don't mean to be derisive, it's just my way.

As any gentleman would say: if you can't beat 'em - give 'em a snort of derision.

[hr]

[s]Cogitationis poenam nemo meretur, facias ipse quod faciamus suades - pax vobiscum.[/s]

[the Empress]

So, you don't think referendums are asking for your opinions on things? Because they've definately been held in the last 18 months.

[Edit] The blackboard was a similie, not a metaphor.

[hr]

I wish I had a river to skate away on

[Al]

I am not sure you understood me. Once elected, the SRC is deemed competent to represent student opinion. There is nothing that can be said in favour of the SRC forever second guessing itself by constantly referring back to the student body. That should only be done in matters of the utmost importance. You say that you have never been asked your opinion. That might be the case. Have you ever volunteered your opinion? You can't expect the SRC to canvass the opinions of every single student. That was why the hall reps (and members of Crichton-Montrose) were so valuable.

[Grandpa]

Quoting the Empress from 23:41, 28th Nov 2005
So, you don't think referendums are asking for your opinions on things? Because they've definately been held in the last 18 months.

[Edit] The blackboard was a similie, not a metaphor.

ok, I should stop criticising people on theior use of english - clearly mine could do with some improving. I shall try my best.

give me one instance that I, as a student and solely as a student, was asked to be part of a referendum, please.

[hr]

[s]Cogitationis poenam nemo meretur, facias ipse quod faciamus suades - pax vobiscum.[/s]

[Grandpa]

Quoting Al from 23:55, 28th Nov 2005
I am not sure you understood me. Once elected, the SRC is deemed competent to represent student opinion. There is nothing that can be said in favour of the SRC forever second guessing itself by constantly referring back to the student body. That should only be done in matters of the utmost importance. You say that you have never been asked your opinion. That might be the case. Have you ever volunteered your opinion? You can't expect the SRC to canvass the opinions of every single student. That was why the hall reps (and members of Crichton-Montrose) were so valuable.

I say the src is entirely inefficient and does not focus on student opinion.

It would not be too difficult to set up a system of referenda whereby each and every student was asked the level of importance of certain issues, and was subsequently asked whichj out of all possibilities they would like to happen.

Once elected, in my opinioin the src should be entirely competent to find out these opinions.

It would not take a great deal of effort.

I mean, come on, are we meant to represent in a sort of 'by proxy' fashion, whereby each rep. has no idea what the greater student body actually thinks, rather s/he simply goes on his/her own opinion formed by the people s/he hangs around and interacts with?

It is arguable that the rep.s hang around/interact with the people who they represent, but in reality their judgement is marred by the fact that they interact with a minority of students. There is a solution, but here is not the place for me to say what it is.

[hr]

[s]Cogitationis poenam nemo meretur, facias ipse quod faciamus suades - pax vobiscum.[/s]

[Al]

I give up. I thought I may be wrong and that I should give you the benefit of the doubt. I see that my first impressions were right. You really don't have a clue.

[Grandpa]

Quoting Al from 00:10, 29th Nov 2005
I give up. I thought I may be wrong and that I should give you the benefit of the doubt. I see that my first impressions were right. You really don't have a clue.

then why don't you enlighten me in great detail.

I have edited my previous post to show that I think the concept of the src, in it's present form, is flawed and cannot possibly represent the larger student body.

[hr]

[s]Cogitationis poenam nemo meretur, facias ipse quod faciamus suades - pax vobiscum.[/s]

[Bonnie]

1.) What is this about Ann Summers parties? Did I miss something? Grandpa, sometimes you make absolutely no sense. She was recounting a time YOU insulted someone by telling them she was only good enough to model Ann Summers and now you're trying to say it was inappropriate people were talking about Ann Summers.
In any case, I wasn't there or have since forgotten.

2.) Al

In order to represent as wide a cross-section of student opinion it follows that the SRC should contain as wide a cross-section of student opinion as possible. It should not merely be a collection of desperately ridiculous posts. Nor should it go down the road of complete lack of accountability as was recently proposed. Bring back the hall reps, Crichton-Montrose reps, convenors, properly constituted year and constituency reps. If there is a need for the various trivial reps, let them sit on the relevant committees.

We HAVE brought them back but you're always writing about how they don't belong there. Which way does the wind blow?

3) The new SRC members are getting on quite well; I was impressed at the last SRC. If they keep this up, they'll be the model SRC for generations and other Scottish (possibly more) institutions to come. I'm also aware that two years ago, all the "oldies" officers graduated, leaving quite a large vacuum for so many "young'ins" to move in. However, now that I see the members really taking the bull by the horns, I have every faith that the SRC will continue to move from strength to strength.

4) To any new member happening to read this. Remember how big of a step you made and how much research and consultation you did in order to prepare for your first SRC two weeks ago? That should happen every time. If you do that, you're all set. We're not going to be saving the world, changing the space-time continuum, or creating utopia every other Tuesday. However, the students of the University of St Andrews deserve the best education possible and your job is to let the University and government know what that looks like.

5.) Grandpa, the SRC has changed significantly since you were on it-- honestly. And I admit that it is significantly better than when I was a sabb and I apologise to the SRC and all students of this University if there was anything I should have done to remedy that. You keep gripping about "the SRC sucks because when I was on it it sucked". That's not a valid argument to make anymore.

6.) I'll stop now.

[hr]

I love cheese.

[Al]

You say the SRC is inefficient. Your solution? To bog it down in the constant organising of referenda!

[Al]

"We HAVE brought them back but you're always writing about how they don't belong there. Which way does the wind blow?"

I have never - unless I was feeling particularly senile - said the reps under the system as I described above don't belong.

But I am withdrawing from this argument. It's not going anywhere fruitful.

[Grandpa]

Quoting Al from 00:23, 29th Nov 2005
You say the SRC is inefficient. Your solution? To bog it down in the constant organising of referenda!

I'm sorry, but the deciding of say 5 - 15 questions every once in a while...constant bogging down?

[hr]

[s]Cogitationis poenam nemo meretur, facias ipse quod faciamus suades - pax vobiscum.[/s]