Both parents now suspects

[Das Feuer liebt mich]

Excuse me, did I say that was my average opinion of a working class person? No!

As I said in my previous post, I am from a working class family so why would I hold a low opinion of working class people. My father doesn't have a drinking problem neither is my mother unemployed.

I was using it as an EXAMPLE. E X A M P L E! Not as a generalisation of working class people!

Quoting munchingfoo from 19:00, 12th Sep 2007

f it had been working class parents that had left their kids alone, say a bald headed man who has a bit of a drinking problem and a black mother who is unemployed

Nice view of the average working class person you have there.

[hr]

Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!

[hr]

Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our mind.

[Das Feuer liebt mich]

I'm sorry for using the word everyone, what I meant was the majority of people I know!

Please let me state plainly and clearly that I myself view everyone as equal. I would rather there were no class distinctions in our society, unfortunately there are.

I would like to finish by saying that I personallybelieve that the reason the McCann case was given so much media attention was because
[nl]
[Ii] they are middle class
[Ii] they have respectable jobs, GPs
[Ii] they are Catholic
[/nl]

I also personally believe that if the McCanns had been of working class, were factory workers (just an example!) and were atheists then I don't believe they would have got as much media attention and I don't think that the majority of people would have rallied around them to support them.

The reasons why I think this? Well there's something else for you all to argue and speculate over...

[hr]

Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our mind.

[SchizophrenicCabbage]

Shit! Society now classes sat nav systems?!

Tee hee.

[David Bean]

Yeah, but do you not think there might be a legitimate reason why two GPs should be considered more respectable than a father with a drink problem and a mother who's unemployed? And God Almighty, if my belief that there is is now supposed to be rooted in some sort of class-based prejudice, what the hell are we allowed to value in life these days?!

[hr]

Psalm 91:7

[exnihilo]

Nothing. Behave yourself with your outmoded value judgements!

[munchingfoo]

The whole point of using examples is to reinforce your point. Examples should be relevant to the point you are trying to make. In choosing the drunk father and unemployed mother (are the unemployed working class anyway? - I prefer the term "underclass" ) you were either certifying that this was a good example of a working class family - or you made a bad choice for your example.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt on the choice of example, since I guessed this point would be obvious, leaving only the assumption that you did indeed think of your example as an average working class family.



[hr]

Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!

[Mehmsy]

I might laugh for a day or three if it really was them. It'd be deliciously ironic, and a good lesson to the media.

Unfortunately, though, this is all probably just stupid speculation.

[hr]

http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37106593

[Das Feuer liebt mich]

Yes, they probably would be considered more respectable as people but it no way does being a GP make you a better person.

You could have a father (with a drink problem) who thinks the world of his children and would do nothing to harm them. And as for the unemployed mother; well, I dunno, maybe she can't get a job because off all the immigrants in this country (don't take it seriously!) But in no way would I consider a GP more repsectable merely for the title they hold.... Though a lot of people might.

Quoting David Bean from 23:29, 12th Sep 2007
Yeah, but do you not think there might be a legitimate reason why two GPs should be considered more respectable than a father with a drink problem and a mother who's unemployed? And God Almighty, if my belief that there is is now supposed to be rooted in some sort of class-based prejudice, what the hell are we allowed to value in life these days?!

[hr]

Psalm 91:7

[hr]

Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our mind.

[Malcolm]

The best thing I think is coming out of this now is that people are beginning to no longer see the McCanns as being perfect, and whiter-than-white. There's every chance that they could have killed Madeleine, they are not Holier-than-Thou and completely incapable of killing her, they are human beings and it's just as likely to have been them as anyone else. The problem is that the media are portraying the McCanns as something great, they couldn't possibly have done it... well that's just not true. Nobody suspected Ian Brady/Myra Hindley, Rose and Fred West, and even Ian Huntley until much later on. If it had been some 19 year old single mum chavette whose kid went missing there would have been a witch hunt going on from day one.

My theories:

1) Some of the papers are saying toxicology reports showed up Madeleine to have had sleeping tablets in her system according to the samples found in the car. Kate McCann was apparently the last to see Madeleine alive, so she went back to the apartment during the meal, Madeleine wouldn't sleep so it was out with the sleeping tablets. Kate was frenzied and overdosed her. Madeleine dies in a struggle with her mother somehow, Kate panics, somehow hides the body and rushes back to claim Maddy is missing. Her diary apparently said she was having problems with the kids and that Maddy was hyperactive, so this makes some sense.

I think this could well have been it. Kate killed her by accident and Gerry doesn't have a clue.

Another variation on this is that the body was hidden later when Gerry was back, and he knows fine well what Kate did and is trying to cover up for her.

2) Same as above, except it was a lone nutjob paedophile in the apartment instead of Kate McCann. He did the same thing with the sleeping tablets and removed the body. The blood would imply some kind of struggle, again.

3) Kate and Gerry McCann wanted rid of Maddy for some reason, so they decided to do so in Portugal where they knew the authorities wouldn't be as efficient and have the same powers as those in the UK. If they had done this in the UK they would probably have been sussed and put away months ago.

4) Kate and Gerry McCann had nothing to do with it, and the Portuguese Police are under pressure to nail somebody so they start tampering with evidence to get results from a bungled inquiry.

This business of the diary is really interesting. It seems from what I've read in the papers (tabloids mind you, I don't trust them anything like close to 100%) that Kate was struggling with the kids and was basically losing the plot over the whole thing. Which is why I personally think that she's partly or wholly responsible for the whole thing and she is off the rails.

I think it's about time the parents were seriously examined. I also think that they should take the other two children away, seeing as neglecting children like they did with their own in Portugal would have had Social Services all over them in about five minutes had it happened in the UK.

[David Bean]

Quoting Das Feuer liebt mich from 18:15, 13th Sep 2007
Yes, they probably would be considered more respectable as people but it no way does being a GP make you a better person.

A better person than what? Surely someone who makes a positive contribution to society, as GPs have a tendency to do, is, all other things being equal, likely to be a better person than one who makes no contribution to society at all, or who takes from from it? Certainly they are better instrumentally - I think people often tend to confuse instrumental and intrinsic value when they talk about equality - and they may well be better morally too, since at some stage in their life they will have made the calculation that what they want to do with their lives is try to make people better, insead of, for example, doing nothing or just drinking. I can't understand your argument here.

[hr]

Psalm 91:7

[Das Feuer liebt mich]

Harold Shipman

Quoting David Bean from 14:19, 15th Sep 2007

Quoting Das Feuer liebt mich from 18:15, 13th Sep 2007
Yes, they probably would be considered more respectable as people but it no way does being a GP make you a better person.

A better person than what? Surely someone who makes a positive contribution to society, as GPs have a tendency to do, is, all other things being equal, likely to be a better person than one who makes no contribution to society at all, or who takes from from it? Certainly they are better instrumentally - I think people often tend to confuse instrumental and intrinsic value when they talk about equality - and they may well be better morally too, since at some stage in their life they will have made the calculation that what they want to do with their lives is try to make people better, insead of, for example, doing nothing or just drinking. I can't understand your argument here.

[hr]

Psalm 91:7

[hr]

Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our mind.

[flossy]

Malcolm - number 1 is more likely if not "frenzied" but rather mummy (as a GP) thinks she knows the correct dose of sedative to give to kids (based on age, body mass etc) so that they'll sleep when left alone but messes up big-style.

or 5. Cuddle cat did it.

[hr]

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the substrate.

[novium]

ok, so the evidence that's prompting this suspicion is a bit of blood found in a car they didn't rent until 25 days after she went missing. Where exactly, being as they were on vacation and everyone was looking for her could they have stashed the body for that long?



[hr]

Neither the storms of crisis, nor the breezes of ambition could ever divert him, either by hope or by fear, from the course that he had chosen

[maenad]

Quoting Malcolm from 12:58, 15th Sep 2007
I also think that they should take the other two children away, seeing as neglecting children like they did with their own in Portugal would have had Social Services all over them in about five minutes had it happened in the UK.

And how would that help? There is no evidence that the McCanns are generally abusive/neglectful; for all we know (and I'm surprised you've put so much thought into speculation, because I wouldn't trust the media a jot on this one) this was one error made whilst relaxing on holiday - a stupid error, but not one that they're ever likely to make again. I don't see how ripping two small children from their parents and condemning them to a life in the British care system is going to help anybody.

[hr]

Tommy can you hear me?

[Jono]

It was the parents.

It was Robert Murat.

It was Gypsies.

It was the Car itself!

She was kidnapped by members of the CU on holiday in portugal.

She was eaten by the World of Darkness(Tm.)

She spontaneously transformed into a Belgian milkshake.

Gordon Brown drained her childer soul to supplement his power.

She's off on a magical adventure alongside teenage ninjas with orange hair.

Her very existence was wiped out by a temporal paradox.

----

This whole thing is a non-story, because there is nothing to report. There are no solid facts, because the Portugese police won't release any. There's only "operation speculation."

[hr]

BY FIRE; BE PURGED!


http://www.myspace.com/tauntra

[Al]

Quoting novium from 02:27, 16th Sep 2007
ok, so the evidence that's prompting this suspicion is a bit of blood found in a car they didn't rent until 25 days after she went missing. Where exactly, being as they were on vacation and everyone was looking for her could they have stashed the body for that long?

I think it's the more the allegation that blood and hair were found in the boot of a car that, as you say, Madeleine could never have been in when alive.

And it wouldn't be that difficult to conceal such a small body.

[Mehmsy]

Quoting Jono from 03:36, 16th Sep 2007
It was the parents.

It was Robert Murat.

It was Gypsies.

It was the Car itself!

She was kidnapped by members of the CU on holiday in portugal.

She was eaten by the World of Darkness(Tm.)

She spontaneously transformed into a Belgian milkshake.

Gordon Brown drained her childer soul to supplement his power.

She's off on a magical adventure alongside teenage ninjas with orange hair.

Her very existence was wiped out by a temporal paradox.

----

This whole thing is a non-story, because there is nothing to report. There are no solid facts, because the Portugese police won't release any. There's only "operation speculation."

[hr]

BY FIRE; BE PURGED!


http://www.myspace.com/tauntra

Never rule out spontaneous human combustion! All that baby fat'd make for fantastic fuel.

[hr]

http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37106593

[flossy]

Quoting Al from 10:13, 16th Sep 2007

Quoting novium from 02:27, 16th Sep 2007
ok, so the evidence that's prompting this suspicion is a bit of blood found in a car they didn't rent until 25 days after she went missing. Where exactly, being as they were on vacation and everyone was looking for her could they have stashed the body for that long?

I think it's the more the allegation that blood and hair were found in the boot of a car that, as you say, Madeleine could never have been in when alive.

And it wouldn't be that difficult to conceal such a small body.

Er, yes it would when the police have dogs that can apparently smell death on the pages of a Bible...

[hr]

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the substrate.

[Al]

Quoting flossy from 12:09, 16th Sep 2007

Er, yes it would when the police have dogs that can apparently smell death on the pages of a Bible...

They haven't found the body though, have they?

[novium]

I don't think it'd be easy. I honestly can't think of a way.

I do not mean this as sort of "hah! they are innocent!" - I just want to point out that this latest "twist" is as dubious as all the others have been. It's just feeding the media frenzy, that's all.

[hr]

Neither the storms of crisis, nor the breezes of ambition could ever divert him, either by hope or by fear, from the course that he had chosen